I am the 53%.

[Audley Strange]

There are a good few % of people that should never be let near a job, paying them £65 quid a week to stay out of jail is a bargain.

Its a sad fact but we have a few million people who are quite simply surplus for requirement and can't economically be rescued. The dole is bribery for them not to riot or die messily on your door. No problems paying it as a tax payer even to people who arent interested in working

I agree, but we have to accept that such actually exist and not pretend everyone unemployed is somehow a victim of the recession.

[Coito ergo sum]

Just conventional wording -- the "you" was that "third person" you meaning - "anyone" or "one."

I was unemployed for about 2 1/2 months.

I did it all. Not all of it brought results, but I made sure that as long as was out of work, I put in full time - and I mean full time - 8 hours, a lunch in the middle making it 9, and then extra hours in the evening doing searches, brainstorming and getting letters and emails drafted.

Why the hell anyone would spend time dicking around while unemployed, rather than getting even that one extra application in or resume sent out in the mail is beyond me. Every application - every phone call - every networking attempt - is a chance. You get out there, and you get their first. You keep on it daily, because the job opportunity of a lifetime may come up, and you want to be there first.

Much of it may seem like low probability, and not many of the chances will result in jobs. But, of 100 applications, a certain percentage will respond. A smaller percentage will respond favorably. A smaller percentage will end up making offers, and a smaller percentage than that will be offers acceptable to you. But, failing to make the effort guarantees that the end number will be zero. Being slow, and missing an opportunity will result in that opportunity knocking on a closed door with someone sleeping inside.

One can say "it's hard" and sit and wait for an employer to find one at random and offer one a dream job. Or, one can do something about it. Far too many people holding up crayon/marker signs aren't doing all they can about their own situations, IMHO.

[MrJonno]

When I became redundant I spent roughly about 20-30 hours per week applying for jobs/interviews etc and it took me 3 months. I had reasonable skills and I think the amount of work putting it looking for work was reasonable but for someone in a low skilled job its a completely different situation

[MrJonno]

There are a good few % of people that should never be let near a job, paying them £65 quid a week to stay out of jail is a bargain.

Its a sad fact but we have a few million people who are quite simply surplus for requirement and can't economically be rescued. The dole is bribery for them not to riot or die messily on your door. No problems paying it as a tax payer even to people who arent interested in working

I agree, but we have to accept that such actually exist and not pretend everyone unemployed is somehow a victim of the recession.

Quite happy to admit they exist, quite a few in my area. You can tell who they are as they basically arent capable of speech that doesnt involve grunting or swearing.
I blame a lack of parenting on their part but it doesnt matter in the end why these people are highly unlikely to ever be economically productive.

I am quite prepared to say anyone who never wants to work should get £65 per week and rent paid in the lesser parts of town with no questions asked ever. If someone wants to live like that then I don't want to have them in the same office as me. If someone is unemployed and wants to work they can demonstrate they are looking and should get more help of the state while they are still looking.

[Audley Strange]

There are a good few % of people that should never be let near a job, paying them £65 quid a week to stay out of jail is a bargain.

Its a sad fact but we have a few million people who are quite simply surplus for requirement and can't economically be rescued. The dole is bribery for them not to riot or die messily on your door. No problems paying it as a tax payer even to people who arent interested in working

I agree, but we have to accept that such actually exist and not pretend everyone unemployed is somehow a victim of the recession.

Quite happy to admit they exist, quite a few in my area. You can tell who they are as they basically arent capable of speech that doesnt involve grunting or swearing.
I blame a lack of parenting on their part but it doesnt matter in the end why these people are highly unlikely to ever be economically productive.

I am quite prepared to say anyone who never wants to work should get £65 per week and rent paid in the lesser parts of town with no questions asked ever. If someone wants to live like that then I don't want to have them in the same office as me. If someone is unemployed and wants to work they can demonstrate they are looking and should get more help of the state while they are still looking.

Why give them money and homes? Couldn't we just stick them in dorms with food stamps and then offer them the opportunity to improve if they want it? It doesn't have to be urban battery estates, we could make them free range wards of state.

[MrJonno]

Dorms cost money to look after, require staff to for security etc. Dorm's also tend to have rules which people will break. We send them to jail and cost the taxpayer a fortune

Far cheaper to give them money to look after themselves

[Audley Strange]

Good point.

[Coito ergo sum]

When I became redundant I spent roughly about 20-30 hours per week applying for jobs/interviews etc and it took me 3 months. I had reasonable skills and I think the amount of work putting it looking for work was reasonable but for someone in a low skilled job its a completely different situation

Low skilled work is easier to find.

[MrJonno]

When I became redundant I spent roughly about 20-30 hours per week applying for jobs/interviews etc and it took me 3 months. I had reasonable skills and I think the amount of work putting it looking for work was reasonable but for someone in a low skilled job its a completely different situation

Low skilled work is easier to find.

The competition is far higher 100's of applicants per job instead of 10's

[Coito ergo sum]

In the US, low skilled work is easier to find. Yard care - house cleaning - jockeying a cash register - serving food - high turnover, plenty of jobs advertised despite the high unemployment.

[MrJonno]

In the US, low skilled work is easier to find. Yard care - house cleaning - jockeying a cash register - serving food - high turnover, plenty of jobs advertised despite the high unemployment.

Not sure about house cleaning but then again most people don't havent had servants in the UK since the 19th century but serving food/running a cash register requires several weeks of training. Hygiene for food and the modern till is extremely complex. Pretty sure you need money handling skills as well.

Quite confident I could get another IT job if required but would really struggle to get a cash register job, lack of experience and high competition

[Coito ergo sum]

In the US, low skilled work is easier to find. Yard care - house cleaning - jockeying a cash register - serving food - high turnover, plenty of jobs advertised despite the high unemployment.

Not sure about house cleaning but then again most people don't havent had servants in the UK since the 19th century but serving food/running a cash register requires several weeks of training. Hygiene for food and the modern till is extremely complex. Pretty sure you need money handling skills as well.

Quite confident I could get another IT job if required but would really struggle to get a cash register job, lack of experience and high competition

Weeks of training to run a cash register?

No wonder we're experiencing the downfall of western civilization...

I learned to run a cash register when I worked in a store as a teenager. First, I swept the floors, stocked the shelves, broke up the boxes, took out the trash and all sorts of stuff like that. Then, in about 15 minutes of watching alongside the cashier, I learned to run it. It really isn't that complex.

But, then again, I used run into people all the time who refused to try to unjam the photocopier in the office, because they hadn't been "trained on it." It seems we have people paralyzed to do anything they haven't been trained, authorized and approved to do. The idea of taking a look at something and figuring it out, with or without the instructional sheets that come along with it, seems to be an antiquated notion.

[MrJonno]

Photocopying machine has hot parts and sharp edges, if you ask someone untrained to unjam this and they hurt themselves they will sue (and I wouldnt be totally unsympathetic). Have you actually seen a modern high spec printer/photocopier there are something like 20+ posssible jam locations and you can easily damage the printer unjamming it never mind yourself

Not sure when you were a teenager Coito ergo Sum but using a modern EPOS (electronic point of sale device) / cashregister takes training. No sensible business would leave anyone alone with one without it

[Coito ergo sum]

Photocopying machine has hot parts and sharp edges, if you ask someone untrained to unjam this and they hurt themselves they will sue (and I wouldnt be totally unsympathetic). Have you actually seen a modern high spec printer/photocopier there are something like 20+ posssible jam locations and you can easily damage the printer unjamming it never mind yourself

Not sure when you were a teenager Coito ergo Sum but using a modern EPOS (electronic point of sale device) / cashregister takes training. No sensible business would leave anyone alone with one without it

I would be totally sympathetic at all. How bad can you hurt yourself on a photocopier? Burn your finger maybe? Get a papercut? Lawsuits?

I am not talking about "asking" someone to do anything anyway. I'm talking about someone standing in front of a copier and the thing jams. Why not look and see where it jammed and open the door and turn the little knobbies to get the paper out? That's what I always did. It's probably a function of how I was raised, but I would be embarrassed not to try.

Have I "actually seen" a modern high spec printer/copier? I have one in my office, and I've worked in offices with them for 20 years. What do you mean have I actually seen one? Are these things rare in your neck of the woods? They're everywhere over here. And, they've become MORE user friendly than they used to be. Now, the little display tells you where the jam is, and tells you the door to open, and tells you the knob to turn to get the paper out. They are made to be user friendly.

Now, as for "where I grew up" -- New York metropolitan area, roughly - suburban. They had electronic cash registers. It didn't take long to learn how to work it. And, the modern ones are more idiot proof than they were back in the 1980s. Today, they even count the change for you and spit it out in a little dish. Many stores I go to now have it so dumbed down even the customer can work them. You go up, scan your own stuff, feed money into the machine, and it gives you change.

But, then again, I figured out how to fix my own beat-up old car when I was young and poor. The whole idea of figuring stuff out has been replaced by "I have to be trained" on the simplest things.

[MrJonno]

Figuring out stuff in your own time on something you own is one thing, figuring it out in someone else time on their equipment is a very different matter.

As for the scanning EPOS you generally have a member of staff monitoring 2 or 3 of them partly for security but partly because half the public can't cope with them.

As for printer jams etc I know people who get paid $40-50k to look after top of the range printers its an IT specialism in itself

I think you are a pretty clever guy but obviously not clever enough to realise much of he population isnt as a bright as you.

One of the jobs I've done in the past has been an IT trainer well strictly speaking it was people being self taught using a PC and a tape recorder taking them through course and me helping out when they got stuck. I would estimate around 1 in 5 people couldnt cope with using a tape recorder. You should have seen their faces when you took them through the rewind button