You Don't Bring Super Sonic Missiles to a Gun Fight

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Step 1: Identify pirate bases.

Sleepy fishing village.

Full of pirates. See step 1.

And infants and old women. The pirates can be nuked from orbit if you wish. If you wish to kill a bunch of innocent people in the process.

[JimC]

JimC, the boats are fishing smacks, no different from thousands like them in the area. You have to know which one to track.

Nah. You just inspect them, and if you find a weapon, like an AK or an RPG, you hang the pirates and sink the boat.

Gawdzilla's point (which I'm not really sure is fully correct- see later) was that it is hard to distinguish pirates from the bfairly common fishing boats, which makes it a great number to keep track off. If this is true, it also makes it a great number to inspect, far too many in fact...

However, I am hard-edged enough to agree to your suggestion of what to do with those found to be armed. Fuck 'em!

Two general points though:

1. I thought most of the pirate boats were fast power craft, rather different in profile to fishing smacks; surely this profile would assist detection and interception.

2. My other thought was to go back in time to a response by significant merchant shipping (eg. the East India Company) in the days of sail; they mounted guns... Not sufficient to defeat a serious privateer or enemy commerce raider, perhaps, but enough to beat off the tinpot local pirates they tended to encounter...
Surely a mercenary group could outfit and man major merchant ships with relatively inexpensive, close range anti-shipping missiles, or at least a Bofors gun or two, and a few 50 cal machine guns, manned by people who knew how to use them...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

1. I thought most of the pirate boats were fast power craft, rather different in profile to fishing smacks; surely this profile would assist detection and interception.

The ones I've seen were just fishing smacks. You don't really need high-speed boats to catch a tanker, they're not going to run off on you.

2. My other thought was to go back in time to a response by significant merchant shipping (eg. the East India Company) in the days of sail; they mounted guns... Not sufficient to defeat a serious privateer or enemy commerce raider, perhaps, but enough to beat off the tinpot local pirates they tended to encounter...
Surely a mercenary group could outfit and man major merchant ships with relatively inexpensive, close range anti-shipping missiles, or at least a Bofors gun or two, and a few 50 cal machine guns, manned by people who knew how to use them...

They're starting to mount defensive armament, but there's a whole slew of problems with that, including "armed merchantmen" laws left over from WWII. "Non-lethal" weapons are becoming an option, but with any weapon you have to have the will and the time to use it.

[Wumbologist]

We need to bring back the Q-ships. Let the pirates get close enough to a tempting target, open up on them, and let one survivor float back to tell the others. After a few incidents like that they'll be too scared to attack anything for fear it might have a few Brownings hiding on the deck.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We need to bring back the Q-ships. Let the pirates get close enough to a tempting target, open up on them, and let one survivor float back to tell the others. After a few incidents like that they'll be too scared to attack anything for fear it might have a few Brownings hiding on the deck.

Better still, hire some of the pirates to get rid of the others. Then deal with the ones we KNOW are pirates.

Hey, it worked for the Tripolitanians.

[Seth]

We need to bring back the Q-ships. Let the pirates get close enough to a tempting target, open up on them, and let one survivor float back to tell the others. After a few incidents like that they'll be too scared to attack anything for fear it might have a few Brownings hiding on the deck.

Why bother with the subterfuge, just arm all merchant vessels passing through the area FFS.

I actually don't care about merchant vessels that are unarmed. If they get pirated, it's their own stupidity that caused it. The owners can pay the ransom if they like.

I worry about private vessels like the one that was just taken that has children aboard, who will likely end up dead because the international community can't get it's act together to wipe out a bunch of ignorant savages in fishing boats.

[Seth]

JimC, the boats are fishing smacks, no different from thousands like them in the area. You have to know which one to track.

Nah. You just inspect them, and if you find a weapon, like an AK or an RPG, you hang the pirates and sink the boat.

Gawdzilla's point (which I'm not really sure is fully correct- see later) was that it is hard to distinguish pirates from the bfairly common fishing boats, which makes it a great number to keep track off. If this is true, it also makes it a great number to inspect, far too many in fact...

However, I am hard-edged enough to agree to your suggestion of what to do with those found to be armed. Fuck 'em!

Two general points though:

1. I thought most of the pirate boats were fast power craft, rather different in profile to fishing smacks; surely this profile would assist detection and interception.

2. My other thought was to go back in time to a response by significant merchant shipping (eg. the East India Company) in the days of sail; they mounted guns... Not sufficient to defeat a serious privateer or enemy commerce raider, perhaps, but enough to beat off the tinpot local pirates they tended to encounter...
Surely a mercenary group could outfit and man major merchant ships with relatively inexpensive, close range anti-shipping missiles, or at least a Bofors gun or two, and a few 50 cal machine guns, manned by people who knew how to use them...

Any vessel that fails to heave-to for inspection is a pirate vessel, and should be fired upon.

Any vessel operating outside the 12 mile limit that is not marked, identified and tracked is subject to boarding.

Any vessel, particularly a small boat, that approaches a commercial vessel on the high seas without FIRST contacting them by radio, is a pirate vessel and should be sunk without warning by the armed personnel on the merchant vessel.

ALL MERCHANT VESSELS SHOULD BE ARMED!

Duh.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Seth, do me a favor, go look at the situation. It's not nearly as simple as you make out. It's nothing to see fifty fishing boats in one area, and there's no way you can check them all. And we know from Vietnam that you can always hide guns so they can't be found, so inspections are silly at best.

Merchant vessels should have security teams, trained men not just the crew, ready to resist boarders. They could be shuttled between ships as they enter and leave the danger zones, that way they'd get to know the locals and the "problematical" folks.

[Seth]

Seth, do me a favor, go look at the situation. It's not nearly as simple as you make out. It's nothing to see fifty fishing boats in one area, and there's no way you can check them all. And we know from Vietnam that you can always hide guns so they can't be found, so inspections are silly at best.

Merchant vessels should have security teams, trained men not just the crew, ready to resist boarders. They could be shuttled between ships as they enter and leave the danger zones, that way they'd get to know the locals and the "problematical" folks.

If they are operating outside of Somali waters, ie within 12 miles of shore, in a small boat, (and they are now operating HUNDREDS of miles offshore) and while not under military control, then the presumption should be that they are pirates until proven otherwise. You check them, and if you find weapons on them, you sink them. That will winnow down the population of pirates pretty quickly.

And there are security companies doing exactly as you suggest, but they have been called "mercenaries" (which is true) and there have been complaints from national governments and the ports in the region that are needed to supply them won't permit them to dock because of the ubiquity of prohibitions on the possession of weapons by non-governmental military forces.

What is needed is intel and attacks on their bases, active running down of small vessels and mother ships, sinking of the same, and summary executions at sea rather than the show trials we're using now. Give our sea captains back the authority they have historically had to hold drum-head courts martial and execute pirates on the spot.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If they are operating outside of Somali waters, ie within 12 miles of shore, in a small boat, (and they are now operating HUNDREDS of miles offshore) and while not under military control, then the presumption should be that they are pirates until proven otherwise. You check them, and if you find weapons on them, you sink them. That will winnow down the population of pirates pretty quickly.

Wrong. That's where most of the boats fish, on the continental shelf. If it was as simple as you think the situation would have been resolved by now.

And there are security companies doing exactly as you suggest, but they have been called "mercenaries" (which is true) and there have been complaints from national governments and the ports in the region that are needed to supply them won't permit them to dock because of the ubiquity of prohibitions on the possession of weapons by non-governmental military forces.

That's why you shuttle them off to a new ship, an outbound one. You would have a "mother ship" for when there's no business, and a second, smaller ship to take people to shore and back.

What is needed is intel and attacks on their bases, active running down of small vessels and mother ships, sinking of the same, and summary executions at sea rather than the show trials we're using now. Give our sea captains back the authority they have historically had to hold drum-head courts martial and execute pirates on the spot.

You keep thinking this is some big cartel of an organization. It's not, it's most pick-up crews and spur of the moment planning. There is no "Pirate Council" meeting at Shipwreck Cove.

[Don't Panic]

JimC, the boats are fishing smacks, no different from thousands like them in the area. You have to know which one to track.

Nah. You just inspect them, and if you find a weapon, like an AK or an RPG, you hang the pirates and sink the boat.

You might miss some of them that way.

Sanitise every small fishing boat found using large calibre machine guns, then search the wreckage for weapons, announce the tragic, but necessary, death of the pirates if you find weapons, sink the boat and move on if you don't. Far more effective, in both results and time, even if it does cause a little... collateral damage.

[Ian]

JimC, the boats are fishing smacks, no different from thousands like them in the area. You have to know which one to track.

Nah. You just inspect them, and if you find a weapon, like an AK or an RPG, you hang the pirates and sink the boat.

You might miss some of them that way.

Sanitise every small fishing boat found using large calibre machine guns, then search the wreckage for weapons, announce the tragic, but necessary, death of the pirates if you find weapons, sink the boat and move on if you don't. Far more effective, in both results and time, even if it does cause a little... collateral damage.

AKA "Kill 'em all and let Gawd sort them out."

[Don't Panic]

JimC, the boats are fishing smacks, no different from thousands like them in the area. You have to know which one to track.

Nah. You just inspect them, and if you find a weapon, like an AK or an RPG, you hang the pirates and sink the boat.

You might miss some of them that way.

Sanitise every small fishing boat found using large calibre machine guns, then search the wreckage for weapons, announce the tragic, but necessary, death of the pirates if you find weapons, sink the boat and move on if you don't. Far more effective, in both results and time, even if it does cause a little... collateral damage.

AKA "Kill 'em all and let Gawd sort them out."

Zilla is retired, isn't he?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

JimC, the boats are fishing smacks, no different from thousands like them in the area. You have to know which one to track.

Nah. You just inspect them, and if you find a weapon, like an AK or an RPG, you hang the pirates and sink the boat.

You might miss some of them that way.

Sanitise every small fishing boat found using large calibre machine guns, then search the wreckage for weapons, announce the tragic, but necessary, death of the pirates if you find weapons, sink the boat and move on if you don't. Far more effective, in both results and time, even if it does cause a little... collateral damage.

AKA "Kill 'em all and let Gawd sort them out."

They're Jews?

[Ian]

U.S. Navy frees ship from suspected Indian Ocean pirates
By the CNN Wire Staff
March 6, 2011 7:26 p.m. EST

A U.S. Navy ship came to the rescue of an oil tanker in the Indian Ocean on Saturday after four suspected pirates climbed aboard.

The Japanese-owned MV Guanabara reported it was under attack Friday afternoon 328 nautical miles southeast of Oman, the Navy said. The Guanabara had 24 crew members aboard.

The warship USS Bulkeley, assigned to the Combined Maritime Forces' CTF-151 counter-piracy mission, was directed to intercept the Guanabara, supported by the Turkish warship TCG Giresun of NATO's counter-piracy task force.

After Guanabara's master confirmed to the Bulkeley that his crew had taken refuge in the ship's citadel room, or secure compartment, the Bulkeley's specialist boarding team climbed aboard Saturday, detained the four men and secured the vessel, the Navy said.

There was no exchange of fire at any time during the operation, and an SH-60 Seahawk helicopter supported the boarding team from the air, the Navy added.

Officials said they are still deciding what to do with the suspected pirates. The U.S. Navy did not disclose the nationalities of those detained or where they were being taken.

"Through our mutual cooperation and shared coordination, CTF-151 and our partner organizations has prevented the kidnapping of legitimate mariners who sought only to go peacefully about their business," said CMF's counter-piracy commander, Commodore Abdul Alheem. "Today, there will be a merchant ship sailing freely that would not be doing so were it not for the efforts of CTF-151."

The Combined Maritime Forces is a naval partnership of 25 member nations including the United States that works to disrupt piracy and armed robbery and improve security in international waters off the Middle East.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03 ... &iref=NS1#