Where are you on the Political Compass?

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al-rawandi
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by al-rawandi » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:08 am

eXcommunicate wrote:
AshtonBlack wrote:*Flee Flee* We're all goddam commies.... eeeek!!!!!

Depends on your definition of communist. Soviet Union "Communism" would be in the upper left corner. True Marxism would be in the bottom left corner, methinks.

Actually, Communism starts in the lower left corner, then as the state must increasingly impose its will on its citizens it moves to authoritarian, which has been the case in every Marxist (or Leninist) adventure. The repression of the individualist impulse is at the very core of Marxism, and can only be achieved, en masse, by a powerful state.

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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by al-rawandi » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:10 am

The Red Fox wrote:Image


I got the same result. NICE!

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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:59 am

I'd kill to see the results at Rapture Ready!! :mrgreen:
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by Arse » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:29 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:I'd kill to see the results at Rapture Ready!! :mrgreen:
:lol:

I'd like to see the results of a personality disorder test at Rapture Ready.
Image

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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:42 am

ghost wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:I'd kill to see the results at Rapture Ready!! :mrgreen:
:lol:

I'd like to see the results of a personality disorder test at Rapture Ready.
Actually, I expect that the failure rate in a "Guess your own name" contest would be quite revealing there as well!
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by The Red Fox » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:23 am

al-rawandi wrote:
The Red Fox wrote:Image


I got the same result. NICE!
If I remember your posts at RDF correctly you were a supporter of free market economics (don't hold me to that I have a mind like a colander), which is where we would disagree.

If that's true it does expose quite a big flaw in the test, as economics was a very contentious issue when I last checked the debates in the politics forum there.

If anyone wants to take a more in depth test: http://politics.beasts.org/scripts/survey.

Image
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by al-rawandi » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:52 pm

The Red Fox wrote:
al-rawandi wrote:
The Red Fox wrote:Image


I got the same result. NICE!
If I remember your posts at RDF correctly you were a supporter of free market economics (don't hold me to that I have a mind like a colander), which is where we would disagree.

If that's true it does expose quite a big flaw in the test, as economics was a very contentious issue when I last checked the debates in the politics forum there.

If anyone wants to take a more in depth test: http://politics.beasts.org/scripts/survey.

Image

Of course I support GENUINELY free markets. Which means unfettered freedom for labor to participate in the control of production, as well as people's rights to choose other sorts of economic freedom. We don't have a free market in the United States (although I certainly prefer it to Cuba or North Korea, or oligarchies like Russia), we have a corpotocracy for a government that caters to the whims of privately centralized power. Now, we have to uncover the meaning of "free market". I certainly don't mean that in the traditionally libertarian sense, which means freedom of greed and consolidation. I would also say that I would prefer more freedom for the individual as opposed to less, which is why I scored extremely libertarian. I also believe this comes with serious social responsibility which is why I scored a very "left" score as well. It is a simple fact of history, reality and economics that control economies don't work. Personal incentive must play a role or there is little hope for development.

The compass isn't perfect.

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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by The Red Fox » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:35 pm

al-rawandi wrote:Of course I support GENUINELY free markets. Which means unfettered freedom for labor to participate in the control of production, as well as people's rights to choose other sorts of economic freedom.
Interesting. I don't think I've come across that one before.
We don't have a free market in the United States (although I certainly prefer it to Cuba or North Korea, or oligarchies like Russia), we have a corpotocracy for a government that caters to the whims of privately centralized power.


Agreed, and unfortunately the politicians in power have their hands in the till so to speak and won't change the system which benefits them. The amount of politicians with corporate links is nauseating, much like the aristocratic dominated parliament of the 18th and 19th centuries in Britain. Some things never change.
Now, we have to uncover the meaning of "free market". I certainly don't mean that in the traditionally libertarian sense, which means freedom of greed and consolidation. I would also say that I would prefer more freedom for the individual as opposed to less, which is why I scored extremely libertarian. I also believe this comes with serious social responsibility which is why I scored a very "left" score as well.
Good man. :cheers:
It is a simple fact of history, reality and economics that control economies don't work. Personal incentive must play a role or there is little hope for development.
Quite. And as long as incentive involves more than money I see no problem with that. I would rather we see rewards for those who contribute the most whilst taking the least, as currently we seem to be facing ruin by those who take with no thought of the consequences to the wider world.
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:12 am

The only TRUE free market would be one in which ANY end-user had a choice of buying from ANY initial producer. The trouble with that is that the majority of people work somewhere within the 'middleman structure' which conveys the one to the other.

To ensure TRUE freedom of choice, the end-user would also need to decide which mode of transportation was used, which assembly plant was used, which warehousing firms were used to store goods until they were needed or could be delivered, which routes were chosen to transport the raw materials, intermediary parts and finished products from wherever they were to wherever they needed to be.

Could there ever be a system where an individual would decide where to source each of the hundreds of raw materials that went into making up their new car, could specify how those materials were to be processed into the required parts, how they were to be transported from factory to factory, where they were to be stored in between, where they were to be finally assembled, and so on? Bollocks there could!

And even if that was to be achieved, how would that empowered consumer learn about all of the options open to them? Would advertising be permitted? If not, what would replace it? And what controls would be placed on the firms involved in all of the necessary stages in order to ensure that there was no deception involved?

The system that we have at the moment is failing. Every system that preceded it failed. And - and here comes the kicker - every system that succeeds it will fail as well!

BUT! Every system that we ever had, have now, or will ever have in the future, worked/works/will work to a degree. Why? Because if it didn't, it would soon disappear up its own orifice.

I am utterly centrist politically.
  • I believe in the freedom of individuals to achieve as much as they can for themselves in the world. I also believe in the need for the state to protect those that are most vulnerable.
  • I believe in minimal control over the actions of both individuals and businesses. I also believe in tough enforcement of those that overstep those boundaries.
  • I believe that nobody in a world as technologically advanced as ours should need to struggle for the basic necessities of life: sufficient food, shelter from the elements, medical care,etc. I also believe that every one has the right to improve their lot in life through hard work and enterprise.
  • I believe that it is right for a pharmaceutical company that has invested millions into research to realise a profit from that research. I also believe that it is indefensible if that same company allows people to suffer in order to increase their profit margin.
Ultimately, I believe that there is, and always will be, a conflict between: individual freedom and state control; business interests and consumer interests; free enterprise and the welfare state; globalism and provincialism. This has always been, is now and will always be. The most successful states are those that recognise this dichotomy and that the pendulum swings from time to time but that things are generally better when it is closer to the middle. Compromise and consensus are the paths that lead to the greatest happiness for the greatest numbers.

The flipside of this is that absolutism, dogmatism, rigidity, inflexibility and an unwillingness to consider the opposing point-of-view is the path to the greatest misery. This is the POV of fascism, communism, and worst of all, the greatest instrument of self-abuse ever conceived by mankind, religion.
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by JimC » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:32 pm

A little more centrist than some here...

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But I was always a realist...
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by Hermit » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:39 pm

JimC wrote:I was always a realist...
That's the standard excuse of reactionary running dogs of the capitalist system. Come the revolution you will be summarily executed by garotting with your own cardigan.

:mob:
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:57 pm

Seraph wrote:
JimC wrote:I was always a realist...
That's the standard excuse of reactionary running dogs of the capitalist system. Come the revolution you will be summarily executed by garotting with your own cardigan.

:mob:
Yeah right. There's going to be a revolution in Oz. 99% of the population will look up from their barbies and beers and say, "Did you see that Blue? Some blokes're having a revolution, Blimey!" then they will get back to prawn broiling while America steps in and quashes the rebels to protect their underground missile bases.
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by Trolldor » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:34 am

Just don't touch the beer.
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by Hermit » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:27 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Seraph wrote:
JimC wrote:I was always a realist...
That's the standard excuse of reactionary running dogs of the capitalist system. Come the revolution you will be summarily executed by garotting with your own cardigan.

:mob:
Yeah right. There's going to be a revolution in Oz. 99% of the population will look up from their barbies and beers and say, "Did you see that Blue? Some blokes're having a revolution, Blimey!" then they will get back to prawn broiling while America steps in and quashes the rebels to protect their underground missile bases.
Spoilsport! :Erasb:

But, yes, you're right. In a country with a political spectrum ranging from i all the way to j, the cause most likely to trigger a revolution will be something like prohibition. Apart from the reactionary/agrarian socialist coalition (standing for the "j" and the we-can-run-capitalism-better-than-the-coalition party ("i"), nobody matters in electoral terms unless they garner more influence than deserved in regard to votes by holding the balance of power. (Xenophon and Family First are two examples. One Nation threatened to be another until John Howard knackered it by stealing its racist policies.)

The political compass does not span the full spectrum either. If it wanted to do that it would have to include propositions like: "The private ownership of the means of production ought to be abolished." and "Taxation is theft."
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Re: Where are you on the Political Compass?

Post by al-rawandi » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:09 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:The only TRUE free market would be one in which ANY end-user had a choice of buying from ANY initial producer. The trouble with that is that the majority of people work somewhere within the 'middleman structure' which conveys the one to the other.

To ensure TRUE freedom of choice, the end-user would also need to decide which mode of transportation was used, which assembly plant was used, which warehousing firms were used to store goods until they were needed or could be delivered, which routes were chosen to transport the raw materials, intermediary parts and finished products from wherever they were to wherever they needed to be.

Could there ever be a system where an individual would decide where to source each of the hundreds of raw materials that went into making up their new car, could specify how those materials were to be processed into the required parts, how they were to be transported from factory to factory, where they were to be stored in between, where they were to be finally assembled, and so on? Bollocks there could!

And even if that was to be achieved, how would that empowered consumer learn about all of the options open to them? Would advertising be permitted? If not, what would replace it? And what controls would be placed on the firms involved in all of the necessary stages in order to ensure that there was no deception involved?

The system that we have at the moment is failing. Every system that preceded it failed. And - and here comes the kicker - every system that succeeds it will fail as well!

BUT! Every system that we ever had, have now, or will ever have in the future, worked/works/will work to a degree. Why? Because if it didn't, it would soon disappear up its own orifice.

I am utterly centrist politically.
  • I believe in the freedom of individuals to achieve as much as they can for themselves in the world. I also believe in the need for the state to protect those that are most vulnerable.
  • I believe in minimal control over the actions of both individuals and businesses. I also believe in tough enforcement of those that overstep those boundaries.
  • I believe that nobody in a world as technologically advanced as ours should need to struggle for the basic necessities of life: sufficient food, shelter from the elements, medical care,etc. I also believe that every one has the right to improve their lot in life through hard work and enterprise.
  • I believe that it is right for a pharmaceutical company that has invested millions into research to realise a profit from that research. I also believe that it is indefensible if that same company allows people to suffer in order to increase their profit margin.
Ultimately, I believe that there is, and always will be, a conflict between: individual freedom and state control; business interests and consumer interests; free enterprise and the welfare state; globalism and provincialism. This has always been, is now and will always be. The most successful states are those that recognise this dichotomy and that the pendulum swings from time to time but that things are generally better when it is closer to the middle. Compromise and consensus are the paths that lead to the greatest happiness for the greatest numbers.

The flipside of this is that absolutism, dogmatism, rigidity, inflexibility and an unwillingness to consider the opposing point-of-view is the path to the greatest misery. This is the POV of fascism, communism, and worst of all, the greatest instrument of self-abuse ever conceived by mankind, religion.

The biggest problem I see with any form of leftist politics is that it inevitably leads to outright despotic control. It is no wonder that sexual ethics were strictly enforced in EVERY leftist government. Castro imprisoned homosexuals, as did the Sandinstas. One Sandinista (I don't remember if this was Tomas Borge or not) said that a concentration camp must be heaven for a gay as they can be around other gays. I guess Auschwitz was an extended Passover dinner. Anyhow, Mao did the same, enforcing shapeless clothing, outlawing flirtation and the like. Stalin similarly came down hard on sexual expression.

This is why I oppose all forms of Communism and most forms of Socialism because they have always led to mass slaughter, starvation, repression, and misery.


This in no way addressed or answered your post, nor was it supposed to, I just needed a reply button to hit. Carry on garroting cardigan wearing capitalist pigs.

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