U.S. passes "historic" healthcare bill

[Martok]

I don't like how if people don't buy healthcare they will be punished for it.

I wasn't thrilled with that either.. But if you make below a certain amount you'll get assistance in paying for it. If we were getting a public option this wouldn't be an issue.

The issue for my family is they make above that amount, and will now have to help support other people's health care.

Oh, you're from that side of the argument. Well I guess you can join Rush Limbaugh in Costa Rica.

Oh wait, you're family and Rush will still get TAXED for living there, and yes, they have some form of public health care. Maybe North Korea? They don't have any kind of public aide. Your family and Rush should love it there.

Im super liberal. My family is conservative, but not extreme. Like I said in a later post my family is pissed that they will have to spend even more money on healthcare and taxes. They aren't against people having government healthcare, hell Im probably going to need it once I graduate from college! They are just angry about how the government went about doing it. For the record my entire family hates Rush, and all the tea party assholes.

Your family can't hate Rush or the tea baggers that much. The whole Rush, tea bagger argument against health care reform is that they don't want to pay for other peoples health care. They view health care as a privileged. Like buying a house or corvette. If you have the money you can buy it, don't have the money, you're shit out of luck.

[Martok]

The principled democrats should have haggled a bit and got the troops out of iraq and afghanistan while they had some political leverage. Then our overall national expenditures would have actually decreased.

Troop levels in Iraq are already going down.

[Coito ergo sum]

The principled democrats should have haggled a bit and got the troops out of iraq and afghanistan while they had some political leverage. Then our overall national expenditures would have actually decreased.

Troop levels in Iraq are already going down.

Already? We were promised that they'd be all out by about now, except for a few to guard the Embassy....

[Rum]

Yay! Merica goes commie!

[Coito ergo sum]

Your family can't hate Rush or the tea baggers that much. The whole Rush, tea bagger argument against health care reform is that they don't want to pay for other peoples health care. They view health care as a privileged. Like buying a house or corvette. If you have the money you can buy it, don't have the money, you're shit out of luck.

So...instead...the Democrats force you to buy it.

We should do the same with food. Since it's a right, everyone is forced to buy a specified panoply of foodstuffs that the government thinks you should have, and if you "can't afford" it then you get subsidies. Great plan.

[MissingNo.]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/video/vid ... 1269263912

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't like how if people don't buy healthcare they will be punished for it.

I wasn't thrilled with that either.. But if you make below a certain amount you'll get assistance in paying for it. If we were getting a public option this wouldn't be an issue.

The issue for my family is they make above that amount, and will now have to help support other people's health care.

Oh, you're from that side of the argument. Well I guess you can join Rush Limbaugh in Costa Rica.

Oh wait, you're family and Rush will still get TAXED for living there, and yes, they have some form of public health care. Maybe North Korea? They don't have any kind of public aide. Your family and Rush should love it there.

Im super liberal. My family is conservative, but not extreme. Like I said in a later post my family is pissed that they will have to spend even more money on healthcare and taxes. They aren't against people having government healthcare, hell Im probably going to need it once I graduate from college! They are just angry about how the government went about doing it. For the record my entire family hates Rush, and all the tea party assholes.

There is no government healthcare in this new law. It's a legal requirement to purchase health insurance.

[Coito ergo sum]

No negotiating with the drug companies. The president gave that away last year.

You think the government can negotiate well with drug companies?

If that plus the public option were part of health care reform it would have lowered health care cost by substantial amounts.

If that were true, then the original House bill (which incorporated both of those things), would have been estimated to reduce the deficit. HOwever, the CBO, when evaluating HR 3200, found that it would increase the deficit when there was a public option.

[Coito ergo sum]

Who thinks their premiums will be reduced by $2500 per year? http://www.breitbart.tv/20-promises-for ... -by-obama/

Wait...if you subsidize a bunch of families 100%, then their premiums are $0. So, that would reduce the average.....

[Rum]

Isn't the main point that millions of poorer people who could not get medical help when they need it will be able to? However you do it, get on with it.

To us in Europe it looks like the Dark Ages.

[Clinton Huxley]

Isn't the main point that millions of poorer people who could not get medical help when they need it will be able to? However you do it, get on with it.

To us in Europe it looks like the Dark Ages.

+1 the key number is 32 million - ie the number who will now be able to get treatment. The rest is mere middle class whining.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The principled democrats should have haggled a bit and got the troops out of iraq and afghanistan while they had some political leverage. Then our overall national expenditures would have actually decreased.

Troop levels in Iraq are already going down.

Already? We were promised that they'd be all out by about now, except for a few to guard the Embassy....

They should have been out before they went in.

[Coito ergo sum]

Isn't the main point that millions of poorer people who could not get medical help when they need it will be able to? However you do it, get on with it.

To us in Europe it looks like the Dark Ages.

Europe ain't the center of the universe any more than the U.S. is. To us, the stories of how long it takes you folks to get in for an MRI or similar procedures is likewise "Dark Ages" -ish.

Whether the main point is one thing or another, there were some very specific promises and assurances made many times over by this administration: (1) more affordable, (2) cheaper than it is now on average $2500, (3) "will not add one dime to the deficit," (4) reduce the cost of health care.

Perhaps that's all "sales puffery" and whatnot, and we should just say, "oh we know they were just saying that to get the fence-sitters on board" and we should just acknowledge that he was lying all along....but, before the 2008 election and since Obama took office I have been having it out with health care reform supporters who assured me that I was just crazy to think that this will add to the deficit, be more expensive and not reduce the cost of health care overall....now that it's through, I am inundated by sentiments like yours -- the "oh, who cares about those details" thing...

[Coito ergo sum]

The principled democrats should have haggled a bit and got the troops out of iraq and afghanistan while they had some political leverage. Then our overall national expenditures would have actually decreased.

Troop levels in Iraq are already going down.

Already? We were promised that they'd be all out by about now, except for a few to guard the Embassy....

They should have been out before they went in.

Then where are all the "bring the troops home now!" people that were so adamant during the Bush years...? They seem to have turned into a light smattering of crickets chirping softly in the distance on a warm, country evening....

General Be-Tray-Us is still going strong...

Nobody touting how the "War is Lost..."

No more calls to film caskets....

And, all that.... I guess that's more political noise, like the "more affordable, cheaper, not a dime to the deficit, and more efficient/less costly health care delivery" lines of bullshit we've been served...

[Coito ergo sum]

Isn't the main point that millions of poorer people who could not get medical help when they need it will be able to? However you do it, get on with it.

To us in Europe it looks like the Dark Ages.

+1 the key number is 32 million - ie the number who will now be able to get treatment. The rest is mere middle class whining.

They are able to get treatment now.

Plus, do you flipping realize that most of the 45 million uninsured (10 million illegal aliens and legal immigrants reduces that to 35 million): (a) about 12 million are eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP, but have not enrolled (and if they went in for any care, they would be enrolled then and there) (b) 9.7 million that make more than $75,000 a year, (c) 8 million make over $50,000 a year, and (d) according to the CBO, roughly 60 percent of the uninsured are under the age of 35, and fully 86 percent report that they are in good or excellent health.

Note - any one making over $50,000 a year, my friend, the 17.7 million folks (more than half of the current uninsured) ARE NOT GOING TO GET ANY GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE! So, all this is doing is forcing them to buy health insurance and not giving them any assistance! 12 million of the uninsured would be covered NOW if they would enroll in SCHIP/Medicaid! So, that's 29 million or thereabouts of your 32 million uninsured!

So, we're spending 2.5 trillion dollars over 10 years to cover 3-5 million people. But, hey...it's worth it to "protect thah chill-run..."