Britain is going to be Tory for at least 10 years.

[Scot Dutchy]

The IFS's attempt to tell us what the economy will be like two decades from now is absurd. Economists make weather forecasters look good.

When I was working we used to make traffic predictions 20 years ahead. Completely useless of course but government departments demanded it. I think this is the case here. Wet finger in the wind is about as good.

[Feck]

I see austerity ( shitting on the poor ) has been as much of a failure as I predicted
Conservatives have wrecked the national economy. 10 more years of them and we will be begging Greece for loans .

[Brian Peacock]

An estimated £1.3tr will have been qualitatively eased into the financial sector by 2027.

Misspelling, or is qualitatively easing an actual thing?

Damn you autocorrect! I obviously meant quintupletly eaking.

[JimC]

I thought it was to be used in this context:

"I qualitatively eased my way into her pants"...

[Hermit]

Conservatives have wrecked the national economy. 10 more years of them and we will be begging Greece for loans .

The Greeks will be generous. Expect to find a big, wooden horse outside London's city gate.

[mistermack]

I see austerity ( shitting on the poor ) has been as much of a failure as I predicted
Conservatives have wrecked the national economy. 10 more years of them and we will be begging Greece for loans .

The problem is that they all do the same thing. Labour won't shit on the rich. Except in tiny ways that are just for show. The rich seem to be immune.

Labour's answer to austerity is to borrow loads more than the Conservatives. Which simply shits on the poor over the next 20 years.
It has to be paid back, and it's poor kids who are 10 now who will have to pay it, when they are the poor of tomorrow.

Shitting on the poor is bad, but shitting on the poor of tomorrow is even worse, because they get none of the benefits and all of the cost.

When someone finds a genuine and effective way of shitting on the rich, I'll vote for them.

[Brian Peacock]

Borrowing has increased under the Tories year-on-year since 2010. Their stated aim of reducing the 'structural deficit' is little more than 'creative accounting' which has done little to reduce the burden on the taxpayer of a systematic GDP shortfall. Since 2010 Tory chancellors have spectacularly missed each and every of their growth targets, and thus spending/borrowing targets - even while borrowing more and spending less. At the same time their policies have reduced tax burdens on business, corporations and the wealthy, which has further reduced the overall tax take, necessitating further reductions in spending and higher borrowing. While at the same time they have been vigorously shaking the magic money tree which is quantitative easing, that is; creating money by taking on more debt centrally and using that to extend low-yield loans to commercial banks, who in turn used it to extend loans to (and with that the indebtedness of) commercial banks (97% of QE). Of that 97%, 27% has gone directly to other financial corporations, 50% to mortgage lending on existing residential properties, 8% to high-cost credit, and just 15% to to the non-financial corporates that represent the productive economy. The Labour party has not undertaken to 'borrow loads more than the Conservatives' but to reallocate the same centrally created resources with an emphasis toward social investment (health, social and care services, education, house building, infrastructure, etc) in favour of growth in the productive economy rather than in favour of the asset growth the Tories have so far supported.

[Hermit]

Labour's answer to austerity is to borrow loads more than the Conservatives. Which simply shits on the poor over the next 20 years.

Here's a graph of recent UK budget deficits.



The budgets between 2005 and 2009 were Labour's. The following budgets were the Tories's.

Austerity measures are not budget balancing measures. They are tax cuts for the rich - either personally or via the companies they have equity in - far in excess of the savings made by cutting social services such as health, education and so forth. All conservatives do that, from Thatcher and Reagan to Cameron/May and Trump.

[mistermack]

The Labour party has not undertaken to 'borrow loads more than the Conservatives'

Making up your own facts again.
They certainly wouldn't put it in those words, of course, but that's exactly what their policies do.

an emphasis toward social investment (health, social and care services, education, house building, infrastructure, etc

The word "investment" is a joke in that context.

Investment is when you spend money, to make new money.
What you describe is borrowing money, to spend money, to hopefully get SOME of the same money back.
That's not investment. Any company would rapidly go broke, with that kind of "investment".

But they all use the phrase. Tories and Labour. It impresses the dummies.

Here's a graph of recent UK budget deficits.

Yeh, showing the effects of the worldwide banking crisis. What planet were you on at the time? And we bailed out Ireland, and various banks.

In any case, I'm not saying that Labour or the Tories are getting it right. I'm lamenting the fact that neither can touch the rich. The only difference is that Labour PRETEND that they will. But they won't.
None of the policies that they've announced will actually raise more money from the rich. They have too many ways to avoid it, and when each policy is looked at critically, it turns out to be self defeating.
Drop the threshold for higher tax rates, and the take goes DOWN.
Labour are basically just saying stuff to get elected. They know they won't do it.
What will actually happen, is that they WILL borrow more, and WON'T get more in tax from the rich.

This country is fucked anyway. The successive governments have built up a pyramid of debt based on a housing market that now has to be propped up at all costs.
Hence the moves in the budget to abolish stamp duty for first time buyers. But it's already top-heavy, and it's only the blackmail of keeping rents high that is stopping it from collapsing.
And it's only 300,000 additional migrants per year that can keep the rents and prices up.

And interest rates at historic lows. The country is teetering on the brink due to debt, and people still moan about "austerity".
A bit of austerity in the past, and we wouldn't be so deep in the shit now.

[pErvinalia]

I see austerity ( shitting on the poor ) has been as much of a failure as I predicted
Conservatives have wrecked the national economy. 10 more years of them and we will be begging Greece for loans .

The problem is that they all do the same thing. Labour won't shit on the rich. Except in tiny ways that are just for show. The rich seem to be immune.

Labour's answer to austerity is to borrow loads more than the Conservatives. Which simply shits on the poor over the next 20 years.
It has to be paid back, and it's poor kids who are 10 now who will have to pay it, when they are the poor of tomorrow.

If the money is invested properly it pays itself back. This idea that borrowing money is bad is retarded thinking. Someone needs to tell all the businesses and investors who borrow money to fund growth and wealth creation.

[pErvinalia]

While at the same time they have been vigorously shaking the magic money tree which is quantitative easing, that is; creating money by taking on more debt centrally and using that to extend low-yield loans to commercial banks, who in turn used it to extend loans to (and with that the indebtedness of) commercial banks (97% of QE).

QE isn't "taking on debt". It's new money, not borrowed money.

[pErvinalia]

The country is teetering on the brink due to debt, and people still moan about "austerity".
A bit of austerity in the past, and we wouldn't be so deep in the shit now.

Austerity retards growth. This is simple stuff. If you had a bit of austerity in the past (which you did anyway, under both sides of politics) you would be in an even worse situation than you are in now.

[Hermit]

Here's a graph of recent UK budget deficits.

Yeh, showing the effects of the worldwide banking crisis.

The GFC was over and done with in 2008. The Tory budget deficit nine years on is still twice as much as it was during the actual crisis when Labour held the reins. And, ah, yeah, bailing out the banks... how noble. I'm sure the plebs are so much better off for that.

[mistermack]

The GFC was over and done with in 2008.

God almighty, you do talk some shit.

You can't debate with that kind of crap.

Austerity retards growth. This is simple stuff.

Yes, and debts have to be repaid. I think that's the bit that you're missing.

Of course, Greece and Ireland were right on your message. No austerity there. Marvellous growth there.
Great models for your wise fiscal planning.

[Hermit]

The GFC was over and done with in 2008.

God almighty, you do talk some shit.

You can't debate with that kind of crap.

Two done in two sentences. Well done, masterdebater.