The Hillary-thread

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:04 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Tero wrote:Marketing! It is worth going, as long as the riff raff (Trump voters) don't come to your event.
Trump voters don't go to Hillary events. Hillary supporters go to Trump events, and then the Hillary supporters get rude, obnoxious and even violent, and then they blame it on Trump, saying that his rhetoric incites them to be violent....
This speech making was before Trump was running. Poor people, democrats and future Trump fans, could not afford her talks. Only upper middcle class Democrats went. It was as much a show as Trump is now.

The huge class of Democrats that are doing well are not going to Hillary rallies. They already decided.

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:47 pm

It's nice to know that Hillary is the candidate of the upper middle class and rich, and Trump is the candidate of the poor.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:24 pm

He is not. Those are just the suckers brought in by "make America great again."

Trump only represents
1 himself
2 the 1%

Wait till the poor turn on him if he..unlikely...wins and fails to create 25 million jobs.

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:04 pm

The projections in his plan are based on economic growth of at least 3.5% and refer to 25 million jobs over 10 years, which is 2.5 million per year. That's about 208,000 per month. Right now about 150,000 per month is needed to keep growing. So, what he's talking about is good growth. Nothing miraculous or pie in the sky. It would be beautiful if it could happen, because it would be like what he had in the 1990s under the better Clinton.

It'll be a difficult goal to meet, but if he sets that sight and comes out with, say 175,000 jobs per month average over his term, it will be very hard to criticize him for it.

Do you really feel that Clinton represents someone other than herself and the 1%? I mean - she's bought and paid for by Wall Street. She is the establishment candidate. She's more of a member of the elite than Trump. They look down on him. He's like Gordon Gecko in the movie Wall Street -- they view him as the "city college" poor boy who fought and scratched for his money through the muck and mire, while they are his betters - the Harvard and Yale well-heeled high hats.

I think that's what Trump's appeal is to the poor and middle class folks. He doesn't talk like a politician. He'll say what he thinks and feels right then, and he doesn't mince words. He's not mealy-mouthed, talking as if the definition of the "is" is the key feature of an answer to a question. He's not polished, and they like it. He's not in the elite, and they like it. He doesn't owe people favors and he hasn't been bought by big donors. They like that.

Hillary, on the other hand, has been glad-handing the elite for decades. She has been paid for. She gets piles of money from interest groups and financiers. Those donations are not made out of a spirit of patriotism to one's country and in the hopes that Hillary can use the donated funds to help the poor and downtrodden get a leg up. Those donations of serious money are made to get serious favor. That's not something that is particular or peculiar to Hilary. It was true of Obama. It was true of Bush. It was true of Clinton. It was true of elder bush. It was true of Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt, Hoover, Coolidge, Taft, Wilson, Roosevelt the first, Cleveland, and back into the 19th century.....

The difference is that Trump has not had a political career in which favors were bought by many people. He bought favor. Not the other way 'round.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:21 pm

Clinton represents me as far as NRA, healthcare and supreme court appointments are concerned. :D

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:31 pm

Tero wrote:Clinton represents me as far as NRA, healthcare and supreme court appointments are concerned. :D
LOL. Healthcare. You weren't paying for your own healthcare before? Did you get a discount or something since Obamacare? Is Hillary promising to make your healthcare better or more affordable? What's she even proposing?

Trump isn't going to appoint radical righties to the Court. The guy is probably more liberal than Hillary on social issues. Remember, he's the one that was asked what bathroom trans people can use in Trump Tower, and he said that they could use any bathroom they want. No hesitation. He doesn't give a flying fuck about abortion, literally. He's a money guy. He wants to help American industry and business grow and compete in the world. He wants better trade deals. He doesn't care who fucks whom.

The NRA? The right to own a gun is not going anywhere whether Hillary gets elected or Trump. That's really a nonissue. I find it hard to believe that whether an AR-15 is banned or not is more important than whether we stop the massive flood of jobs and industry out of our country....
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:39 pm

She wil fight to the end to keep the law on the books that requires insurance companies to give a policy to all applicants. Separate from Obamacare and health exchanges.

If Obamacare fails, she puts all of us in the 60-65 group into Medicare. You didn't hear?

Trump will take my healthcare away.
Google it: one analysis asserted the proposal would actually end coverage for 21 million people.

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:10 pm

Tero wrote:She wil fight to the end to keep the law on the books that requires insurance companies to give a policy to all applicants. Separate from Obamacare and health exchanges.
We didn't need Obamacare to take care of preexisting conditions.
Tero wrote:
If Obamacare fails, she puts all of us in the 60-65 group into Medicare. You didn't hear?
I think you may want to rethink what you think you've been promised. This may be a situation where supporters don't really know what they're supporting, like when Obamacare was being pushed through, and people didn't understand it. Clinton's idea is to allow people over 55 years old to PURCHASE Medicare plans. Saying folk will be "put into Medicare" is a rather vague way of putting it. Analysts have said that there is no clarity on whether Medicare would be a good deal for them, since now they buy through the exchange or on the open Market or get it through their employers.

Don't make the same mistake as supporters of Obamacare made. Research what she's saying. Obamacare was sold to people who did not understand it.
Tero wrote:
Trump will take my healthcare away.
Of course he won't. He's in favor of repeal and replace. How will that take your healthcare away? What are you, anyway, on the dole? If you make a middle class income, you're buying your insurance now, or getting it through an employer. The only insurance that can be "taken away" is government provided insurance. Are you getting that? Are you getting subsidies?

I am middle class and I pay $1200 per month for insurance for my wife and two kids, and we have deductibles and copays. Thanks Obama! Is Hillary going to help me out? Of course not.
Tero wrote:
Google it: one analysis asserted the proposal would actually end coverage for 21 million people.
Link? I'm familiar with it. And, I'd love to see the analysis and who did it. Why do you believe that analysis?

And, they said Obamacare would cover the 45 million, give or take, uninsured. Now around 10 million people have insurance through the exchanges. There are still over 30 million uninsured. It's been 6 years since it passed. And, the insurance people did get went up dramatically in price. That's what "affordable" means in government lingo: "more expensive."

I'm sure it must be just a tweak away from working....
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:38 pm

Affordable or not, they were insurance plans. Those people had nothing available. Nothing is not a choice. Turning down an expensive plan is.

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by DaveDodo007 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:55 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Lolz. You don't want to get into a 'who's the biggest liar' contest when Trump is one of the contestants. It's amusing to see Trumpeteers asserting Hillary is untrustworthy while Trump plays fast and loose with facts on a daily basis. It makes me think that Clinton's character isn't really the issue - particularly if we're being asked to take our personal standards of propriety and probity from a draft and tax dodging bankruptee who thinks that boasting about the size of his genitals says something important about his qualifications for public office.
The difference is the MSM covers and make excuses for Clinton's lies and corruption, whilst they will scrutinize anything Trump says with a microscope. If you want a MSM that does its fucking job in the first place you better hope that Trump gets elected president.
That's one way to excuse Trump's lies I guess. Now if we accept both candidates have lied what makes Trump's lying less worse than Clinton's?
Are you serious, if Trump lied then he lied as a civilian. Hillary was in office in service to the American people who were paying her salary. Also the whole establishment including the MSM cover up for Clinton's lies, there is no way Trump will get such protection.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by DaveDodo007 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:57 pm

pErvin wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Lolz. You don't want to get into a 'who's the biggest liar' contest when Trump is one of the contestants. It's amusing to see Trumpeteers asserting Hillary is untrustworthy while Trump plays fast and loose with facts on a daily basis. It makes me think that Clinton's character isn't really the issue - particularly if we're being asked to take our personal standards of propriety and probity from a draft and tax dodging bankruptee who thinks that boasting about the size of his genitals says something important about his qualifications for public office.
The difference is the MSM covers and make excuses for Clinton's lies and corruption, whilst they will scrutinize anything Trump says with a microscope. If you want a MSM that does its fucking job in the first place you better hope that Trump gets elected president.
That's one way to excuse Trump's lies I guess. Now if we accept both candidates have lied what makes Trump's lying less worse than Clinton's?
Well he's not a woman, so he doesn't threaten certain insecure males..
Project much, the only self loathing i see is coming from lefty/liberal cucks.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by DaveDodo007 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:00 am

Tero wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Tero wrote:She is now selling a different product, for votes. The famous person talks are aboutprestige, exclusivity. And no commitment.
WTF are you on about? Anyway she is a drugged up zombie at this point and i would be amazed if she lived long enough to vote for herself come Nov 8th.
I'm talking about speaker programs
Image
Trump is a successful businessman, what the hell are Bill and Hillary selling if not influence in government affairs.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Forty Two » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:06 am

Tero wrote:Affordable or not, they were insurance plans. Those people had nothing available. Nothing is not a choice. Turning down an expensive plan is.
This is absurd. The only people who had "nothing" available were, arguably, those with preexisting conditions (but, even that is not accurate, as there were options for many with preexisting conditions). However, that was not a large portion of the uninsured that were covered by Obamacare. Nobody is going to take that away.

The unaffordable bit is that what Obamacare did was make it a law that everyone in the US must be covered by insurance, meaning you either have to (a) buy it on the open market, (b) buy it in the exchange, (c) get it through an employer, or (d) get it through a government program. Obamacare is not government provided healthcare that can be taken away.

Obamacare provided subsidies for a few people - these subsidies are partial payments of a person's premium, depending on income (from just above Medicaid qualification up to about below middling income. It does not apply to the 85% of the population covered through some sort of employer provided health insurance plan. That's why so many people don't think it's a big deal - they're not the ones paying directly if they have employer provided health insurance (at least they don't pay for it all).

Obamacare doesn't help most of the "uninsured" because most of the people who were uninsured were making $50,000 to $75,000 per year and chose to not buy health insurance. Now, the insurance they weren't buying before is costs three times as much as it did, and they aren't eligible for subsidies. That's why only 10,000,000 give or take people signed up through the exchanges. The IRS penalty is very small, so it makes no financial sense for these folks who didn't want to pay for insurance before to pay for it now when it's three times as expensive. The big hit for those people will only come when the penalty for being uninsured is really high.

This law did not help the poor, because the poor could qualify for government provided health insurance through Medicaid, and the working poor who didn't qualify for Medicaid used to be able to buy policies for $150 per month per person. Now, those same policies are either unavailable or $450 per month. I know this - I know from whence I speak.

The Affordable Care Act is a failure. It is a monstrous waste of money and it made everything more expensive. It is not justified by saying that people with preexisting conditions needed help. Those folks could have been helped at a fraction of the trillion dollars spent on Obamacare.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Forty Two » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:10 am

Image

I cannot tell a lie. "All my grandparents immigrated to America." - H. Clinton, April 16, 2015

.... they landed under sniper fire too...
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The Hillary-thread

Post by Tero » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:52 am

wiki
Under Clinton's 2016 health care plan, people over 55 years old would be allowed to buy into Medicare if they wanted to.
In July 2016, Clinton proposed to make Affordable Care Act funding for health care centers permanent, and expand the funding by $40 billion over the next 10 years.[112] Clinton supports federal and state efforts to create Medicare-like "public option" health insurance plans to compete against private insurers.

Trump: I get nothing. (that is the ONE promise he has made I can count on)

The healthcare industry is run like a monopoly with one price treatments. Every place charges the same other than some odd hospitals across the country that decided to offer flat rates for operations, paid prior to the treatment.

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