Unarmed teen shooting: the debate rages on...

[maiforpeace]

What I'm curious about is the stance of the community that put Zimmerman on as the neighborhood watch. They've been pretty mum on the whole thing, and my impression is they have left him out to dry all alone with no support.

Well, information gets altered with later updates, but what I read is that it's not an officially affiliated neighbourhood watch, that Zimmerman was the only one who turned up when it was formed, and that he was self-appointed "Captain".

I don't think his neighbours owe him any support. That could have been their kid, killed by this loony.
Don't you think it's Martin's father, if anyone, who needs and deserves support?

Whatever went on in Zimmerman's stupid head, his present predicament is his own stupid fault.
He wouldn't get any support from me, even if he was my best friend.

I'm not saying he deserves their support...but I do feel the neighborhood is responsible to an extent. If they want to partake of the 'supposed' benefits of having a neighborhood watch, they bear some share in the responsibility what happens when the watchman takes an action.

If it was a policeman who shot and killed somebody REGARDLESS of fault, he would be put immediately on administrative leave. They did absolutely nothing, just went along with whatever.

I would be furious, as a member of a association or community if the police simply took it upon themselves to appoint a guy like Zimmerman as a neighborhood watchman, and/or Zimmerman took it upon himself as a member of my community to just decide that he was a capable person to police my neighborhood without my knowing, or my consent.

[Coito ergo sum]

What I'm curious about is the stance of the community that put Zimmerman on as the neighborhood watch. They've been pretty mum on the whole thing, and my impression is they have left him out to dry all alone with no support.

Well, information gets altered with later updates, but what I read is that it's not an officially affiliated neighbourhood watch, that Zimmerman was the only one who turned up when it was formed, and that he was self-appointed "Captain".

I don't think his neighbours owe him any support. That could have been their kid, killed by this loony.
Don't you think it's Martin's father, if anyone, who needs and deserves support?

Whatever went on in Zimmerman's stupid head, his present predicament is his own stupid fault.
He wouldn't get any support from me, even if he was my best friend.

I'm not saying he deserves their support...but I do feel the neighborhood is responsible to an extent. If they want to partake of the 'supposed' benefits of having a neighborhood watch, they bear some share in the responsibility what happens when the watchman takes an action.

You seem to be under the impression that others had a say in the matter or affirmatively partook in the supposed benefits. Are you sure they did? How do you know? Do you realize that Zimmerman didn't need anyone's permission or support to become a neighborhood watch person?

If it was a policeman who shot and killed somebody REGARDLESS of fault, he would be put immediately on administrative leave. They did absolutely nothing, just went along with whatever.

From what would Zimmerman have been put on leave?

I would be furious, as a member of a association or community if the police simply took it upon themselves to appoint a guy like Zimmerman as a neighborhood watchman, and/or Zimmerman took it upon himself as a member of my community to just decide that he was a capable person to police my neighborhood without my knowing, or my consent.

Well, then be furious, because people in your community don't need your consent to become neighborhood watch persons.

They definitely don't need it in Sanford. Any citizen can call the Neighborhood Watch Coordinator at the police department and set up a meeting to become a neighborhood watch. They show up, get a presentation, and off they go. This isn't an official thing. It's the police setting up a line of communication with people who want to keep a look-out. These aren't deputies.

[Warren Dew]

The Idea appears to be catching on.
Unfortunately for this shooter, he hasn't killed the only witness :

Harper Woods killing

Innocent until proven guilty! :fingerwag:

Now let's run down some other facts...

Can you believe it? The Harper Woods police released the shooter. What do folks think about that, given the attitude toward the release of Zimmerman?

And, look what else--- the shooter was walking in an alley in Harper Woods (borders on Detroit, actually, and not a nice area of Detroit, either), and a man walked up behind them and tried to rob them. The couple had just gone to an ATM to get some money. The deceased was seen leaving a bar/club on surveillance video and begin to follow them. The woman says he ordered them up against a fence and to empty their pockets. She says when the robber threatened her, her fiancé grabbed the gun. Then a Harper Woods police officer drove into the alley. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/news ... index.html

So, yeah -- innocent until proven guilty. Isn't it a great concept?

Clearly a racially motivated killing!

By the way, what were the races of the people involved in this again? Not that it matters.

[mistermack]

Clearly a racially motivated killing!

By the way, what were the races of the people involved in this again? Not that it matters.

It seems to be black on black. Mind you, that doesn't stop racial profiling.
Wasn't it Chris Rock who said, "when I go to the money machine late at night, I'm looking over my shoulder for NIGGERS" !

Of course the shooter's been released, while they decide whether to charge him.
If the details that have come out are correct, they must be very reluctant to charge him, as I would be.
But it's not looking good for him.

I doubt that the story about him wrestling the gun off the guy is true, it sounds like the girlfriend is just trying her best to get him off. The initial reports were all that he dropped the gun and ran, when the cop arrived, and the boyfriend picked it up and shot him, in the back, as he ran past the cop.
Even in the latest reports, they are still saying that the guy was shot in the back as he fled.

Even with the best will in the world, if that's what happened, they might have to charge him with manslaughter. A jury might refuse to convict though.
And I can't see a judge giving a prison sentence if they did convict.

It's a totally different circumstance to what Zimmerman did.

[Tyrannical]

Clearly a racially motivated killing!

By the way, what were the races of the people involved in this again? Not that it matters.

It seems to be black on black. Mind you, that doesn't stop racial profiling.
Wasn't it Chris Rock who said, "when I go to the money machine late at night, I'm looking over my shoulder for NIGGERS" !

Jesse Jackson back in '93

There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating.

[kiki5711]

Code: Select all

You call the phone number for the police to let them know you're starting it up, then you hold a meeting to coordinate with the police neighborhood watch coordinator. She comes out and gives a presentation. If Zimmerman was the only one who attended, then he's the only one who attended. He would have listened to the presentation, and then ordered some neighborhood watch signs for the neighborhood.

only ONE person attended. well, that would of course mean zimmerman get's the job. he votes for himself and gets elected. (this is just tooo funny)

[kiki5711]

The Idea appears to be catching on.
Unfortunately for this shooter, he hasn't killed the only witness :

Harper Woods killing

Innocent until proven guilty! :fingerwag:

Now let's run down some other facts...

Can you believe it? The Harper Woods police released the shooter. What do folks think about that, given the attitude toward the release of Zimmerman?

And, look what else--- the shooter was walking in an alley in Harper Woods (borders on Detroit, actually, and not a nice area of Detroit, either), and a man walked up behind them and tried to rob them. The couple had just gone to an ATM to get some money. The deceased was seen leaving a bar/club on surveillance video and begin to follow them. The woman says he ordered them up against a fence and to empty their pockets. She says when the robber threatened her, her fiancé grabbed the gun. Then a Harper Woods police officer drove into the alley. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/news ... index.html

So, yeah -- innocent until proven guilty. Isn't it a great concept?

Clearly a racially motivated killing!

By the way, what were the races of the people involved in this again? Not that it matters.

this was just plain ROBBERY. Nothing to do with race.

[kiki5711]

What I'm curious about is the stance of the community that put Zimmerman on as the neighborhood watch. They've been pretty mum on the whole thing, and my impression is they have left him out to dry all alone with no support.

Well, information gets altered with later updates, but what I read is that it's not an officially affiliated neighbourhood watch, that Zimmerman was the only one who turned up when it was formed, and that he was self-appointed "Captain".

I don't think his neighbours owe him any support. That could have been their kid, killed by this loony.
Don't you think it's Martin's father, if anyone, who needs and deserves support?

Whatever went on in Zimmerman's stupid head, his present predicament is his own stupid fault.
He wouldn't get any support from me, even if he was my best friend.

I'm not saying he deserves their support...but I do feel the neighborhood is responsible to an extent. If they want to partake of the 'supposed' benefits of having a neighborhood watch, they bear some share in the responsibility what happens when the watchman takes an action.

If it was a policeman who shot and killed somebody REGARDLESS of fault, he would be put immediately on administrative leave. They did absolutely nothing, just went along with whatever.

I would be furious, as a member of a association or community if the police simply took it upon themselves to appoint a guy like Zimmerman as a neighborhood watchman, and/or Zimmerman took it upon himself as a member of my community to just decide that he was a capable person to police my neighborhood without my knowing, or my consent.

I would be too. I would definitely want to know if there's a watchman going around at night with a gun. He could have mistaken me for a robber trying to get into my house from the back. Anything can look suspicious if you are "LOOKING" for it.

I'm thinking the housing association is now stewing and wondering what this is going to cost them as in $$$$$. they're either going to defend zimmerman's actions or not defend depending on their self interest.

[amused]

I'm thinking the housing association is now stewing and wondering what this is going to cost them as in $$$$$. they're either going to defend zimmerman's actions or not defend depending on their self interest.

I'm hoping they get sued back to the fucking stone age, and these SYG laws get a thorough drubbing.

[kiki5711]

I'm thinking the housing association is now stewing and wondering what this is going to cost them as in $$$$$. they're either going to defend zimmerman's actions or not defend depending on their self interest.

I'm hoping they get sued back to the fucking stone age, and these SYG laws get a thorough drubbing.

[Tyrannical]

I'm thinking the housing association is now stewing and wondering what this is going to cost them as in $$$$$. they're either going to defend zimmerman's actions or not defend depending on their self interest.

I'm hoping they get sued back to the fucking stone age, and these SYG laws get a thorough drubbing.

The only one getting sued will be the alphabet media that portrayed a willful distortion of the facts surrounding the case. Zimmerman could sue Trayvon's parents for his injuries, and possibly for the negative notoriety since he was a minor and they are legally responsible.

I don't think Zimmerman can be sued civilly if found not guilty unlike the OJ case. A not guilty verdict for Zimmerman would show that no crime occurred as it was self-defense, the OJ trial left open that a crime occurred (murder), but not enough evidence existed to criminally convict.

[mistermack]

I don't think Zimmerman can be sued civilly if found not guilty unlike the OJ case. A not guilty verdict for Zimmerman would show that no crime occurred as it was self-defense, the OJ trial left open that a crime occurred (murder), but not enough evidence existed to criminally convict.

WTF ?? Has logic deserted you?

A not guilty verdict can mean not enough evidence in BOTH cases.
And at least there is undisputed evidence that Zimmerman DID kill Martin.

I think the Martin family should take out an injunction that donations should be held by a court, pending civil action by them.

[Coito ergo sum]

Code: Select all

You call the phone number for the police to let them know you're starting it up, then you hold a meeting to coordinate with the police neighborhood watch coordinator. She comes out and gives a presentation. If Zimmerman was the only one who attended, then he's the only one who attended. He would have listened to the presentation, and then ordered some neighborhood watch signs for the neighborhood.

only ONE person attended. well, that would of course mean zimmerman get's the job. he votes for himself and gets elected. (this is just tooo funny)

I don't know. That's what Mai alluded to. If he was the only one there, then he's the only one there. What's so funny about that? If he wasn't, he wasn't. Nobody has established that he was the only one there.

[Coito ergo sum]

The Idea appears to be catching on.
Unfortunately for this shooter, he hasn't killed the only witness :

Harper Woods killing

Innocent until proven guilty! :fingerwag:

Now let's run down some other facts...

Can you believe it? The Harper Woods police released the shooter. What do folks think about that, given the attitude toward the release of Zimmerman?

And, look what else--- the shooter was walking in an alley in Harper Woods (borders on Detroit, actually, and not a nice area of Detroit, either), and a man walked up behind them and tried to rob them. The couple had just gone to an ATM to get some money. The deceased was seen leaving a bar/club on surveillance video and begin to follow them. The woman says he ordered them up against a fence and to empty their pockets. She says when the robber threatened her, her fiancé grabbed the gun. Then a Harper Woods police officer drove into the alley. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/news ... index.html

So, yeah -- innocent until proven guilty. Isn't it a great concept?

Clearly a racially motivated killing!

By the way, what were the races of the people involved in this again? Not that it matters.

this was just plain ROBBERY. Nothing to do with race.

How do you know that? Why don't you think it was cold blooded murder, and that the perpetrator is only making up the threat to cover his tracks? Is it because you didn't read a HuffPo article quoting the attorney for the deceased yet?

[Coito ergo sum]

I'm thinking the housing association is now stewing and wondering what this is going to cost them as in $$$$$. they're either going to defend zimmerman's actions or not defend depending on their self interest.

I'm hoping they get sued back to the fucking stone age, and these SYG laws get a thorough drubbing.

LOL - the homeowners association has nothing to do with the neighborhood watch. That's coordinated through the police department.