Unarmed teen shooting: the debate rages on...

[Coito ergo sum]

The Idea appears to be catching on.
Unfortunately for this shooter, he hasn't killed the only witness :

Harper Woods killing

Innocent until proven guilty! :fingerwag:

Now let's run down some other facts...

Can you believe it? The Harper Woods police released the shooter. What do folks think about that, given the attitude toward the release of Zimmerman?

And, look what else--- the shooter was walking in an alley in Harper Woods (borders on Detroit, actually, and not a nice area of Detroit, either), and a man walked up behind them and tried to rob them. The couple had just gone to an ATM to get some money. The deceased was seen leaving a bar/club on surveillance video and begin to follow them. The woman says he ordered them up against a fence and to empty their pockets. She says when the robber threatened her, her fiancé grabbed the gun. Then a Harper Woods police officer drove into the alley. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/news ... index.html

So, yeah -- innocent until proven guilty. Isn't it a great concept?

[Coito ergo sum]

Coito and Kiki, this is a reminder from the staff to you both that personal attacks are against forum rules. Please play nice, or further action may become necessary.

I committed a personal attack? If possible, please PM me the offending post, so I know which one it is.

[Coito ergo sum]

The Idea appears to be catching on.
Unfortunately for this shooter, he hasn't killed the only witness :

Harper Woods killing

Innocent until proven guilty! :fingerwag:

It sounds like another contentious case. Although the victim was almost certainly a robber, it's going to be hard for the shooter to argue that it was self defence, unless the police decide to "go easy" on the shooter again.

Harper Woods killing update

Point a gun at the guy's pregnant wife? And, letting the guy go is "going easy on the shooter?"

[maiforpeace]

If I get arrested and go to court, I want Coitus in my jury. That's all I'm sayin.

To have a jury that wants to see evidence that the crime was committed is very important. To have Mai and Kiki on your jury.... :shudder: I'd hate to think of it.

Where's your kinky side CES.

And I had you pegged as a masochist. My mistake.

EDIT

Since I haven't expressed an opinion on guilt or innocence in this case, where did you pull that out of CES?

Same place you pull everything else out of no doubt.

Fair enough. I won't go back among the posts to verify.

Do you have an opinion on guilt or innocence?

What did I just write?

I think it was an accident gone bad. I think there was fault on both sides. I also think it's foolish and stupid to have neighborhood watch people with guns.

[Coito ergo sum]

If I get arrested and go to court, I want Coitus in my jury. That's all I'm sayin.

To have a jury that wants to see evidence that the crime was committed is very important. To have Mai and Kiki on your jury.... :shudder: I'd hate to think of it.

Where's your kinky side CES.

And I had you pegged as a masochist. My mistake.

EDIT

Since I haven't expressed an opinion on guilt or innocence in this case, where did you pull that out of CES?

Same place you pull everything else out of no doubt.

Fair enough. I won't go back among the posts to verify.

Do you have an opinion on guilt or innocence?

What did I just write?

You just wrote that you hadn't "expressed" an opinion.

I think it was an accident gone bad. I think there was fault on both sides. I also think it's foolish and stupid to have neighborhood watch people with guns.

Fair enough.

[hadespussercats]

Coito and Kiki, this is a reminder from the staff to you both that personal attacks are against forum rules. Please play nice, or further action may become necessary.

evidence please?

This was the reported post: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 4#p1170144

Lol - keep talkin...

You are past the legalities because everything you have said has been shown to be ignorant, wrong, biased, prejudiced, shrill, irrational, and/or juvenile in the extreme. Your current bluster about you , an aging wannabe hippie whose brain was apparently long ago fried on various drugs, kicking anyone's ass.... Lol...

well why don't you come around and find out, you arrogant prick! you don't even need drugs to be empty headed, you just are.

The above exchange demonstrates personal attacks on the part of each participant.

[kiki5711]

Coito and Kiki, this is a reminder from the staff to you both that personal attacks are against forum rules. Please play nice, or further action may become necessary.

evidence please?

This was the reported post: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 4#p1170144

Lol - keep talkin...

You are past the legalities because everything you have said has been shown to be ignorant, wrong, biased, prejudiced, shrill, irrational, and/or juvenile in the extreme. Your current bluster about you , an aging wannabe hippie whose brain was apparently long ago fried on various drugs, kicking anyone's ass.... Lol...

well why don't you come around and find out, you arrogant prick! you don't even need drugs to be empty headed, you just are.

The above exchange demonstrates personal attacks on the part of each participant.

I was just kidding! don't need proof.

[hadespussercats]

[Coito ergo sum]

Coito and Kiki, this is a reminder from the staff to you both that personal attacks are against forum rules. Please play nice, or further action may become necessary.

evidence please?

This was the reported post: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 4#p1170144

Lol - keep talkin...

You are past the legalities because everything you have said has been shown to be ignorant, wrong, biased, prejudiced, shrill, irrational, and/or juvenile in the extreme. Your current bluster about you , an aging wannabe hippie whose brain was apparently long ago fried on various drugs, kicking anyone's ass.... Lol...

well why don't you come around and find out, you arrogant prick! you don't even need drugs to be empty headed, you just are.

The above exchange demonstrates personal attacks on the part of each participant.

LOL -- got it...

[mistermack]

I think it was an accident gone bad. I think there was fault on both sides. I also think it's foolish and stupid to have neighborhood watch people with guns.

I don't think there was anything accidental in what Zimmerman did.
He CHOSE to wear the gun. ( legal but loony ).
He CHOSE to take the gun out.
He CHOSE to take off the safety catch.
He CHOSE to point it at Martin's chest.
He CHOSE to pull the trigger.

There's very little sign of any accident happening. He was acting out his tough-guy fantasy of blowing away a bad guy in self defence. That's why he wore the gun. To be honest, it ought to be murder 1.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think it was an accident gone bad. I think there was fault on both sides. I also think it's foolish and stupid to have neighborhood watch people with guns.

I don't think there was anything accidental in what Zimmerman did.
He CHOSE to wear the gun. ( legal but loony ).
He CHOSE to take the gun out.
He CHOSE to take off the safety catch.
He CHOSE to point it at Martin's chest.
He CHOSE to pull the trigger.

There's very little sign of any accident happening. He was acting out his tough-guy fantasy of blowing away a bad guy in self defence. That's why he wore the gun. To be honest, it ought to be murder 1.

Murder 1 is murder with "premeditation and deliberation." It seems nonsensical to think that he premeditated and deliberated about killing Martin, doesn't it? He didn't even know the kid.

Can you envision any situation where a gun is properly used in self defense?

[maiforpeace]

What I'm curious about is the stance of the community that put Zimmerman on as the neighborhood watch. They've been pretty mum on the whole thing, and my impression is they have left him out to dry all alone with no support.

[Coito ergo sum]

What I'm curious about is the stance of the community that put Zimmerman on as the neighborhood watch. They've been pretty mum on the whole thing, and my impression is they have left him out to dry all alone with no support.

I think neighborhood watch is not something that entails approval or a community vote. One can become a neighborhood watch person through the Sanford Police Department. It's not like his neighbors had the right to give him a background check and declare him fit or not fit to be a neighborhood watch person.

[mistermack]

What I'm curious about is the stance of the community that put Zimmerman on as the neighborhood watch. They've been pretty mum on the whole thing, and my impression is they have left him out to dry all alone with no support.

Well, information gets altered with later updates, but what I read is that it's not an officially affiliated neighbourhood watch, that Zimmerman was the only one who turned up when it was formed, and that he was self-appointed "Captain".

I don't think his neighbours owe him any support. That could have been their kid, killed by this loony.
Don't you think it's Martin's father, if anyone, who needs and deserves support?

Whatever went on in Zimmerman's stupid head, his present predicament is his own stupid fault.
He wouldn't get any support from me, even if he was my best friend.

[Coito ergo sum]

What I'm curious about is the stance of the community that put Zimmerman on as the neighborhood watch. They've been pretty mum on the whole thing, and my impression is they have left him out to dry all alone with no support.

Well, information gets altered with later updates, but what I read is that it's not an officially affiliated neighbourhood watch, that Zimmerman was the only one who turned up when it was formed, and that he was self-appointed "Captain".

What do you mean "officially affiliated neighborhood watch?" Affiliated with what?

A neighborhood watch group in sanford is just a person who decides they want to form a neighborhood watch, and they meet up with any interested neighbors. You call the phone number for the police to let them know you're starting it up, then you hold a meeting to coordinate with the police neighborhood watch coordinator. She comes out and gives a presentation. If Zimmerman was the only one who attended, then he's the only one who attended. He would have listened to the presentation, and then ordered some neighborhood watch signs for the neighborhood.

He appears to have been known to the police as a neighborhood watch person. What other "affiliation" is there?

I don't think his neighbours owe him any support. That could have been their kid, killed by this loony.
Don't you think it's Martin's father, if anyone, who needs and deserves support?

That depends on whether it was the loony Martin who attacked the loony Zimmerman or not, doesn't it?

Whatever went on in Zimmerman's stupid head, his present predicament is his own stupid fault.
He wouldn't get any support from me, even if he was my best friend.

Doesn't that depend on whether it was the stupid Martin who attacked the stupid Zimmerman, or not?