U.S. passes "historic" healthcare bill

[tattuchu]

"If an insurance company is "forced to cover everyone" then it isn't insurance. Insurance covers risk. We should stop calling it insurance if everyone is covered. Then it's not insurance, it's just adding up the total cost of health care and shifting the cost based on ability to pay." -Coito

I don't follow you on the first part. If the people who actually need insurance can't get it, then what's the point of it at all?
I absolutely agree with you on the second part. We should stop calling it insurance. The whole system is completely retarded. We should just call it health care coverage, and be taxed accordingly to fund it.

[Coito ergo sum]

"If an insurance company is "forced to cover everyone" then it isn't insurance. Insurance covers risk. We should stop calling it insurance if everyone is covered. Then it's not insurance, it's just adding up the total cost of health care and shifting the cost based on ability to pay." -Coito

I don't follow you on the first part. If the people who actually need insurance can't get it, then what's the point of it at all?

Insurance is insurance against risk. If I break my arm, and then go to an insurance company and say "I want to buy insurance to cover my broken arm," how much do you think they will want to charge me? $300? I've already broken my arm. It's not a risk anymore, it's a reality. Insurance companies can sell insurance because they price insurance based on calculated risk. They sell 1,000 people insurance policies to cover broken arms for $300 each, and only a few of those people actually break their arms. The cost of the care of the broken arms has to be paid out of the premiums collected.

If everyone must be covered, then it's not insurance. It's just saying, o.k., we figure out how much it's going to cost to fix all the broken arms, and then we divvy up the cost not based on who needs the repair, but based on some other criteria, like income or net worth.

I absolutely agree with you on the second part. We should stop calling it insurance. The whole system is completely retarded. We should just call it health care coverage, and be taxed accordingly to fund it.

That would, at least, be honest.

[NineOneFour]

"If an insurance company is "forced to cover everyone" then it isn't insurance. Insurance covers risk. We should stop calling it insurance if everyone is covered. Then it's not insurance, it's just adding up the total cost of health care and shifting the cost based on ability to pay." -Coito

I don't follow you on the first part. If the people who actually need insurance can't get it, then what's the point of it at all?

Insurance is insurance against risk. If I break my arm, and then go to an insurance company and say "I want to buy insurance to cover my broken arm," how much do you think they will want to charge me? $300? I've already broken my arm. It's not a risk anymore, it's a reality. Insurance companies can sell insurance because they price insurance based on calculated risk. They sell 1,000 people insurance policies to cover broken arms for $300 each, and only a few of those people actually break their arms. The cost of the care of the broken arms has to be paid out of the premiums collected.

If everyone must be covered, then it's not insurance. It's just saying, o.k., we figure out how much it's going to cost to fix all the broken arms, and then we divvy up the cost not based on who needs the repair, but based on some other criteria, like income or net worth.

I absolutely agree with you on the second part. We should stop calling it insurance. The whole system is completely retarded. We should just call it health care coverage, and be taxed accordingly to fund it.

That would, at least, be honest.

Unlike your posts, which quote out of date statistics about the NHS and fail to mention that wait times for US patients are longer now than for patients in the NHS.

And never mind that there are about 15 countries at least that have better health care than either the US or the UK.

But WE MUST HATE SOCIALISM

Seriously, it's your painfully stupid, over the top, fucking bullshit garbage and repeated fucking lies that makes me want to stay as far away from this forum as possible.

I really hope you lose your own health insurance and get hit with bills you can't pay. Then, when you're eating rotten thrown away Big Macs in a cardboard box underneath a fucking freeway, maybe you'll have a fucking clue, but with your lack of honesty, lack of an open mind, or any mind at all, I sincerely doubt it.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

NineOneFour,

You know our rules on personal attacks here. Post anything like that again and you will receive a suspension.

By all means make your point but leave the personal insults and accusations of lying out of it, please.

[NineOneFour]

NineOneFour,

You know our rules on personal attacks here. Post anything like that again and you will receive a suspension.

By all means make your point but leave the personal insults and accusations of lying out of it, please.

It was more fun that way.

And, nice avatar.

[Coito ergo sum]

Nineonefour - go ahead and post some evide ce that wait times in the u.s. are longer than under the n.h.s.

You can engage in fatuous namecalling and hurl childish insults all you want, but it just demonstrates your own ignorance, which becomes more obvious with every post you make.

The links and articles I provided were very recent and certainly not out of date. Compared to the big zero number of sources you cited, mine are infinitely more current. As much as your own made up crap is fun to read and laugh at, I will stick to reality.

I never said anything about hating socialsm, by the way. Nut, your focus on that clearly demonstrates what it is that you really advocate.

And,I am not surprised that someone of your political perspective would harbor such profane ill-will against another person just pecause of a politics difference. This, to you, is about hate, and vicious attacks. If you don't get want you want, like a big baby, you trow a tantrum. If someone disageees with you, you cry, wail and hurl insults. Grow up and stop acting like a 10 year old. Don't worry, I am sure some benefactor will come ro your rescue. After all, you mist be used to surviving based on the largesse of strangers.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

CES,

You can leave out the insults as well. Thanks.

[Coito ergo sum]

CES,

You can leave out the insults as well. Thanks.

I just reread my post and there were no "insults" in there.

However, to the extent that anything was interpreted as an insult, that was not my intent and I regret any pain and anguish that may have been suffered as as result. If you review nineonefour's history, including that from RDF, you'll find that he uses similar verbiage to that which he used above many times (and generally when someone dares to express an view opposing his).

I'll agree to move on from any such exchanges, and I will simultaneously await any evidence of the aforementioned wait times. How long do you suppose it will be before it is forthcoming?

[Coito ergo sum]

US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'
America's health watchdog is considering revoking its approval of the drug Avastin for use on women with advanced breast cancer, leading to accusations that it will mark the start of 'death panel' drug rationing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... anels.html

[Trolldor]

Ah the death panels...

[Randydeluxe]

I'm sad that I spent valuable time reading that article, only to slowly realize that most of it is intended to provide balance to the beliefs of David Vitter.

[Coito ergo sum]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-1 ... judge.html

The Obama administration’s requirement that most citizens maintain minimum health coverage as part of a broad overhaul of the industry is unconstitutional a federal judge ruled, striking down the linchpin of the plan.

U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson in Richmond, Virginia, today rule that the requirement in President Barack Obama’s health-care legislation goes beyond Congress’s powers to regulate interstate commerce.

[Coito ergo sum]

Pelosi then shook her head before taking a question from another reporter. Her press spokesman, Nadeam Elshami, then told CNSNews.com that asking the speaker of the House where the Constitution authorized Congress to mandated that individual Americans buy health insurance as not a "serious question."

“You can put this on the record,” said Elshami. “That is not a serious question. That is not a serious question.”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/flashba ... nstitution

[Coito ergo sum]

Efforts to repeal Obamacare underway: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/46942.html

Upton, a Michigan Republican, said that his party had 242 votes in favor of repeal, and that "there will be a significant number of Democrats who will join us."
if the House does manage to repeal the health care bill, such a move would likely meet strong obstacles in the Democrat-controlled Senate and White House.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/01/02/ ... index.html

[mistermack]

Coito, you seem to be a man of many faces.
In another debate, concerning prostitution, you couldn't stop bragging about the wonderful social safety net that exists in the US. But on this thread, you seem to resent any cent that is spent on it.

I don't include you in this, but the US seems to be the land of sanctimonious two faced twats.
It's one of the most "christian" nations on earth, except when it comes to acting christian. What would jesus say about heathcare? All these so-called christians know exactly what he would have said, and ignore it completely.
The more rabidly christian they are, the less ready they are to part with a single dime in tax, that might get spent on the poor.
If they took all the money they spend on pets, and spent it on the poor instead, you really would have a safety net. How christian is that?

And I find your quibbling about waiting times in the US compared to the UK rather silly. You are not comparing like with like.
Our NHS is open to all. And the two coutries have very different economies.

If the US took all the money currently spent on health in the country and spent it on a national health system, your NHS would be enormously superior to ours.
.