US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It Out

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Seth
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:35 pm

Pappa wrote:The law relating to intentionally killing a person with a gun or car is the same anyway... murder/homicide. Same goes for intentional killing with a frozen banana.

Guns and cars have very different intended functions. The intended use of a car is to transport people from A to B. The intended use of a gun is to kill other humans (barring hunting rifles etc.).
Actually, the vast majority of the "intended uses" of guns is to punch holes in paper and tin cans. For most people, killing someone with a gun is a distant and to-be-avoided-whenever-possible tertiary function.

But so what? If the "intended use" is lawful, what's the problem?
Cars are dangerous, stupidly so. They are metal boxes that we hurtle down roads alongside other metal boxes, controlled by agents that are prone to making mistakes. But everywhere in the world we've decided the benefits outweigh the risks.
Nope. Cars are not dangerous, people driving cars improperly are dangerous.
Guns are dangerous too,
Nope. Guns are not dangerous, people misusing or mishandling guns are dangerous.

Both cars and guns are inanimate lumps of metal and have no inherent danger in them. They are not bottles of nitroglycerin that might spontaneously explode.
but in some parts of the world people have decided the benefit (mostly self-protection) outweigh the risks, in others they've decided the risks outweigh the benefits. That's all the argument boils down to, a risk/benefit value judgement.
Quite right. The problem is that those who have decided the risks of an armed citizenry outweigh the benefits are irrational, paranoid idiots who aren't qualified to make a valid risk/benefit analysis, so their opinions should be disregarded in favor of reason, logic, evidence and rational analysis.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:39 pm

MrJonno wrote:
So what? Again, you're trying to concoct a specious comparison. You cannot defend successfully against a plane crash (airliner) even with a parachute because you cannot use a parachute from an airliner. But you can defend successfully against a criminal attack using a gun.
If an airliner breaks apart (whether accidently or via a bomb) in mid air and its not too high and you happen to a parachute on dont full unconscious and remember to pull the cord it could save you life (or get everyone killed)

Unlikely about the chance of me meeting a gun armed criminal
If an airliner breaks apart in mid-flight, how is opening your parachute going to "get everyone killed?" They were walking dead the moment the aircraft disintegrated anyway.

And if the airliner doesn't break apart in mid flight, how is opening your parachute, even by accident, going to kill anyone in the cabin, pray tell? Smother them?

:dunno:

Your analogy is, as usual, shit.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:41 pm

colubridae wrote:AFAICR I’m the only one who has ever raised the hideous spectre of road deaths on the forum.
I’ve only ever done it in response to squalid little arguments about the paltry (by comparison) number of war/gun deaths. :dunno:
By contrast hundreds of pages of bs have been posted on much lesser issues. :nono:

No-one has ever sided with me, despite being utterly unable to counter my points with valid criticism.
The most I’ve got is a wishy-washy pitiful ‘Well… hmmmm… it all depends on intent’ :|~
In the name of Owen Glendwr I claim the moral high ground. :drunk:

You can all kiss my welsh ass, and as extra punishment you can kiss pappa’s as well.
:fall:


[end /rant]
Wait a second, I'm siding with you... :sadcheer: :swoon:
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:43 pm

MrJonno wrote:Car ownership is quite strictly contolled in the UK (not strict enough through), 17 is way to young the minimum age should be 21. not to mention no one has a right to drive a car
Carrying a firearm in the US is more strictly controlled than "car ownership" (or did you mean "car operation" because I doubt there are that many rules about merely owning a car)?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by charlou » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:43 pm

Seth wrote:
colubridae wrote:AFAICR I’m the only one who has ever raised the hideous spectre of road deaths on the forum.
I’ve only ever done it in response to squalid little arguments about the paltry (by comparison) number of war/gun deaths. :dunno:
By contrast hundreds of pages of bs have been posted on much lesser issues. :nono:

No-one has ever sided with me, despite being utterly unable to counter my points with valid criticism.
The most I’ve got is a wishy-washy pitiful ‘Well… hmmmm… it all depends on intent’ :|~
In the name of Owen Glendwr I claim the moral high ground. :drunk:

You can all kiss my welsh ass, and as extra punishment you can kiss pappa’s as well.
:fall:


[end /rant]
Wait a second, I'm siding with you... :sadcheer: :swoon:
Use of cute and cuddly smilies by Seth quoted for posterity. :mrgreen:
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:52 pm

MrJonno wrote:
Wumbologist wrote:
MrJonno wrote:
Unlikely about the chance of me meeting a gun armed criminal
The chance of you meeting a "gun armed" criminal is irrelevent, this argument is stupid and you know it's stupid, because I've explained how stupid it is to you before.

If you meet a criminal armed with only his fists, but he is bigger/stronger/faster than you, he can hurt you or kill you just as well as a "gun armed" criminal. Even better if he has a knife, a hammer, a crow bar, a lead pipe, a broken pint glass, a piano wire, a rock, an ice pick, etc etc etc. Your chance of being a victim of violent crime in general is what is important, not your chance of being a victim of violent crime with one particular weapon. And, as I recall you saying, you have been a victim of violent crime several times in the past, at least once requiring hospitalization. Clearly, this is a far more serious problem for you than the risk of being a plane crash victim.
Fair enough, your chances of being a victim of crime where there is anything you can do about it regardless of what you are carrying or not carrying is about the same as being in plane crash, ie if you are walking down the street and someone suddenly sticks a knife/gun/fist at your throat and demands money there isnt a lot you can do about it. If you are going around looking for people who are about to do this they thats a one way try to loony bin, typically I must go pass 1000's of people each day who are in a position to mug me just have the time or desire to think about it
That's fine for you, you're free to walk about in "condition white" oblivious to potential muggers, but those of us in the know understand that there are tactical techniques that reduce such possibilities substantially, and that the firearm is a last-resort defensive weapon not to be substituted for situational awareness and good tactics, which with training and practice, become habit and therefore take no extra "thinking" at all.

And if you think I can't do anything about a mugger with a knife at my throat even without my having a gun, you're delusional. I can remove that knife (or gun) as an immediate threat in any number of ways long enough (<0.75 seconds) to draw and fire my weapon at corps-a-corps range, or I can remove the weapon (gun or knive) and use it to kill the attacker.

Of course, the best course of action is to be situationally aware, because by being situationally aware the muggers will instantly recognize the body language involved, and will avoid me like the plague, preferring to victimize someone like you, who walks around oblivious to what's going on around him.

So, by all means, continue walking like a sheeple, because that makes us wolf-walkers safer, because the crooks will take you over me anytime.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Clinton Huxley
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Clinton Huxley » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:54 pm

Seth wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:Deliberately owning or carrying a weapon is not the same as deliberately owning or driving a car. I don't get into my car thinking about how I would run someone over if I had to. The psychology of driving a car and carrying a gun are different.
So what? And I doubt you know what the "psychology" of carrying a gun actually is because I doubt you've ever carried one or been trained to do so in a civilian self-defense mode.
Of course I've never carried one, as I'm neither a psychopath nor paranoid. Fortunately, I live in a country where a grown up debate about guns has been possible, unlike the infantile United States, where guns "protect us from gubmint tyranny" and any proposed restriction is met with howls of protest from deluded zealots.



I've just seen your reference to "wolf-walkers". Dear oh dear, you are a cartoon.

.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:01 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
Seth wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:Deliberately owning or carrying a weapon is not the same as deliberately owning or driving a car. I don't get into my car thinking about how I would run someone over if I had to. The psychology of driving a car and carrying a gun are different.
So what? And I doubt you know what the "psychology" of carrying a gun actually is because I doubt you've ever carried one or been trained to do so in a civilian self-defense mode.
Of course I've never carried one, as I'm neither a psychopath nor paranoid.
Don't know about the former, in your case, but I'd judge that you're the latter with some certainty. But thanks for admitting that you are entirely unqualified in every possible way to comment cogently on the "psychology" of carrying a gun.
Fortunately, I live in a country where a grown up debate about guns has been possible, unlike the infantile United States, where guns "protect us from gubmint tyranny" and any proposed restriction is met with howls of protest from deluded zealots.
If you consider it "fortunate" that demonstrates just how delusional you really are. Oh well, it's your fucked-up country and you'll eventually be hoist on your own petard, and I really don't give a flying fuck what happens to you or anyone else in the UK, you deserve the fate of sheeple everywhere, and I hope you reap your rich reward soon.

I've just seen your reference to "wolf-walkers". Dear oh dear, you are a cartoon.
Yes, well, you just keep right on thinking that as your masters herd you around and put the bolt-gun to your head when they are ready, your abysmal ignorance on the subject has no effect on my wolf-walking.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Clinton Huxley » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:03 pm

More drooling and foaming at the mouth.

Sorry, wolf-drooling.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Clinton Huxley » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:05 pm

Wumbologist wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote: Nobody gets into their car to commit a massacre, at a school or university say, with the intention of running dozens of people over.
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-10/ ... bus-driver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10837287
Anecdotes. Well done,old chap.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:09 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:More drooling and foaming at the mouth.

Sorry, wolf-drooling.
I believe I heard some baaaing going on, but as a wolf, all it does is make me thing of lunch, so I'm going to go get some.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Gallstones » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:21 pm

Wumbologist wrote:Yay! A gun thread! I just went to my first ever gun show last weekend, got myself a nice little Ruger LC9.

Uh, I mean... GUNS ER BAD BAN THEM ALL
I want one of these.
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_mssentinel.asp
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Clinton Huxley » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:27 pm

Gallstones wrote:
Wumbologist wrote:Yay! A gun thread! I just went to my first ever gun show last weekend, got myself a nice little Ruger LC9.

Uh, I mean... GUNS ER BAD BAN THEM ALL
I want one of these.
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_mssentinel.asp
Image
Nice round butt frame.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Wumbologist » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:02 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
Wumbologist wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote: Nobody gets into their car to commit a massacre, at a school or university say, with the intention of running dozens of people over.
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-10/ ... bus-driver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10837287
Anecdotes. Well done,old chap.


Factual news stories are not anecdotes. You claimed nobody gets into a car to commit a massacre, and I've just shown that they do. Nobody will think less of you if you go ahead and admit that you're wrong and I'm right and that makes me fantastic.

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Wumbologist » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:04 pm

Gallstones wrote:
Wumbologist wrote:Yay! A gun thread! I just went to my first ever gun show last weekend, got myself a nice little Ruger LC9.

Uh, I mean... GUNS ER BAD BAN THEM ALL
I want one of these.
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_mssentinel.asp
Image
Looks to be the same size as the similar Para Warthog. Nice gun for sure, but I prefer pocket carry and that's just too chunky to be suitable for it.

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