The Coronavirus Thread

[Scot Dutchy]

Entirely agree lak. Restrictions should be logical otherwise people will not accept them (well here anyway). De Tweede Kamer threw out government plans of forced isolationism. Measures like being taken in Australia and Ireland would never be tolerated.

[Brian Peacock]

It's an interesting ethical question: where do my freedoms limit the freedoms of others? If we accept that we cannot exist without the help of others in society then measures which are designed to protect others are measures which protect us too.

What if the virus was twice as contagious and twice as deadly, or only half as contagious and half as deadly? Would the kind of measures we're seeing in Victoria seem more or less appropriate, and if so does it depend on how many people die or suffer the long-term health consequences of the infection? Is the loss of, say, 0.5% of the population but 20% of those over 70 who contract a virus a price worth paying for freedom, liberty, and pizza - and does that change if you're one of the ones who is over 70?

[laklak]

Some of the restrictions make sense (I guess) in a situation where the disease is geographically isolated.

[JimC]

Jim, that is a police state FFS. Well it is on track for the dehumanisation of society. When are these restrictions going to be removed?

About 4 weeks from now, if the figures continue to improve. In this particular pandemic emergency, health and safety concerns temporarily trump some aspects of personal freedom. The key is that the measures imposed are temporary, and not arbitrary, in that they are informed by expert medical opinion on how to reduce transmission.

[Scot Dutchy]

"'If 'ífs' and 'ands' were pots and pans", Brian. We have to live in the reality. The reality is governments controls data. can we trust them? No we cannot. This example of the UK proves it.

[Scot Dutchy]

Jim, that is a police state FFS. Well it is on track for the dehumanisation of society. When are these restrictions going to be removed?

About 4 weeks from now, if the figures continue to improve. In this particular pandemic emergency, health and safety concerns temporarily trump some aspects of personal freedom. The key is that the measures imposed are temporary, and not arbitrary, in that they are informed by expert medical opinion on how to reduce transmission.

Sorry Jim it is all part of the plan. Will you jump next time? Of course you will, you have been programmed.
Is anybody asking questions? You are sheeple.

[NineBerry]

Transformation to Galaxian completed

[Svartalf]

No it's not, a proper transformation would require a change of residence to the Red planet, and Scot love the nether lands too much to do that.

[JimC]

Jim, that is a police state FFS. Well it is on track for the dehumanisation of society. When are these restrictions going to be removed?

About 4 weeks from now, if the figures continue to improve. In this particular pandemic emergency, health and safety concerns temporarily trump some aspects of personal freedom. The key is that the measures imposed are temporary, and not arbitrary, in that they are informed by expert medical opinion on how to reduce transmission.

Sorry Jim it is all part of the plan. Will you jump next time? Of course you will, you have been programmed.
Is anybody asking questions? You are sheeple.

I much prefer rationality to paranoid conspiracy theories.

And, at the moment, so do the vast majority of Victorians. The handful of selfish, ignorant wannabe libertarians who refuse to wear masks or follow the rules are widely condemned.

However, there will be a political consequence from all of this. Our current State Labour government faces an election in 2022, and will face an uphill battle. They have been popular until the second wave hit, and the conservative opposition are a nasty bunch, but there will probably be a serious backlash. Mostly this will be because of the incompetent handling of hotel quarantine, which lead to the current second wave, but I suspect that people will associate the current Premier with the draconian lockdown measures (even if most agree with them at the moment), and we will have a change in government, unfortunately...

[JimC]

Cases are back up again today (372 new cases and 14 deaths). Numbers are expected to bounce up and down for a while, but the 5 day moving average is trending down. Little by little, we'll get there...

[pErvinalia]

Jim, that is a police state FFS. Well it is on track for the dehumanisation of society. When are these restrictions going to be removed?

About 4 weeks from now, if the figures continue to improve. In this particular pandemic emergency, health and safety concerns temporarily trump some aspects of personal freedom. The key is that the measures imposed are temporary, and not arbitrary, in that they are informed by expert medical opinion on how to reduce transmission.

Sorry Jim it is all part of the plan. Will you jump next time? Of course you will, you have been programmed.
Is anybody asking questions? You are sheeple.

[pErvinalia]

Transformation to Galaxian completed

Yeah, it's bizarre isn't it?

[Brian Peacock]

Some of the restrictions make sense (I guess) in a situation where the disease is geographically isolated.

It's a matter for each jurisdiction to decide - but even with element of martial law being imposed like we've seen in Victoria we still have to ask who's deciding what and in whose interest.

We're so used to just accepting that politicians don't really represent the interests of us ordinary regular folks, but a virulent and unpredictable virus like COVID-19 is very hard to deal with in public health terms, and probably impossible to hold (let alone make) political ground out of, unless our elected representatives and officials are willing to stop behaving like the craven scum they usually are and put a public health interest first. This crisis has shown our politicians and political systems exactly for what they are - both for good and ill. As always it's a bit of a mixed bag, but still mostly a bag of shit.

I guess if Teh Contagion could be dealt with in geographical isolated it'd still be a Chy-na problem.

[Hermit]

The military in the streets would cause big problems here, and if they came to your home? Wouldn't go down well. People are scared, angry, and armed. Not a good combination. You should see the shit on my FB feed from some of the local militia types, they can't wait to start shooting. 30 million gun sales in the first 6 months of the year.

The problem I have with (some) of those regulations is they make no sense in our situation. I'm no more contagious 10 miles from my house than I am 5 miles from it, and since the whole fucking state is an infectious swamp it would have zero impact on disease spread.

Either masks work or they don't, either social distancing works or it doesn't. If they do then shopping for one hour or two makes no difference. Curfews make no difference. Exercising longer makes no difference.

I've no problem with mandatory masks, BTW, or social distancing. But those other restrictions simply wouldn't fly here, not without significant and probably violent pushback.

The stage 4 lockdown provisions are meant to reduce human to human contact. And yes, shopping for two hours rather than one increases human contact, as does shopping every other day rather than one week or not having a curfew.

I do see the problems trying to introduce and enforce Victorian style lockdown in a population of armed libertarian idiots. The USA is a shithole nation. In Australia we don't have a problem with military personnel helping out in the face of disasters. It has been used to fight bushfires and floods to good effect. Now it's being used to fight a pandemic.

[laklak]

Yeah but our Dad can beat up your Dad.