Trident, do we need it?

[Schneibster]

As I've said, I admire the idea and wish I thought it would work. I look at China, and Pakistan, and Russia, and I know it won't. That's reality.

I look at China, Pakistan and Russia, and I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people there also don't want to be involved in a nuclear war - and the ones that think they need to threaten revenge to be safe, are most likely thinking along exactly the same lines as you. They look at France, and the USA, and Britain, and think "what choice do we have?".

Do you read foreign newspapers regularly?

[PsychoSerenity]

As I've said, I admire the idea and wish I thought it would work. I look at China, and Pakistan, and Russia, and I know it won't. That's reality.

I look at China, Pakistan and Russia, and I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people there also don't want to be involved in a nuclear war - and the ones that think they need to threaten revenge to be safe, are most likely thinking along exactly the same lines as you. They look at France, and the USA, and Britain, and think "what choice do we have?".

Do you read foreign newspapers regularly?

No. I occasionally watch RT news on youtube though. Thanks for the link, fascinating read - but I don't get what your point is?

[Svartalf]

I don't trust Johnny English with the bomb and we can't trust the French to protect us. Do those Ruskies have any bombs lying around we could buy?

The next thing will be to find a pub to leave it in.

So long as it is in liverpool...

[Rum]

People should not underestimate the effects of even a 'small' nuclear war. The old great game was not called M.A.D. for no reason. It stood for 'mutually assured destruction' and some theorists have postulated that if it had not been for that grand strategy there would have been a war between the West and the USSR as was. We came close at least three times to that and if the missiles had flown it it likely that most life in the planet would have perished.

Personally I would not want to live in a world where there has been any kind of nuclear war - and I count WW2 as a semi-nuclear war too. So I think we should dump trident taking the view that if we are involved in any sort of exchange it will be the end of things as we ever want them to be.

It is also worth reminding ourselves that highly sophisticated technologically advanced weaponry will out gun the likes of Iran, even if they had 'the bomb' for a few decades at least.

[Schneibster]

As I've said, I admire the idea and wish I thought it would work. I look at China, and Pakistan, and Russia, and I know it won't. That's reality.

I look at China, Pakistan and Russia, and I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people there also don't want to be involved in a nuclear war - and the ones that think they need to threaten revenge to be safe, are most likely thinking along exactly the same lines as you. They look at France, and the USA, and Britain, and think "what choice do we have?".

Do you read foreign newspapers regularly?

No. I occasionally watch RT news on youtube though. Thanks for the link, fascinating read - but I don't get what your point is?

Read the Pakistani Daily Times for a month.

I watched the government of Pakistan try to weasel out of paying third party power providers the money the providers needed to buy fuel, and then try to punish them because they couldn't provide electricity. A bunch of them just walked away and left the government holding the bag, and they had power riots all over the country for two months while they tried to get them to come back.

This same government has nuclear weapons.

If that doesn't tell you why, I'm not going to be able to help you- I don't have the patience. Perhaps someone else will.

[Schneibster]

People should not underestimate the effects of even a 'small' nuclear war. The old great game was not called M.A.D. for no reason. It stood for 'mutually assured destruction' and some theorists have postulated that if it had not been for that grand strategy there would have been a war between the West and the USSR as was. We came close at least three times to that and if the missiles had flown it it likely that most life in the planet would have perished.

I knew about three when they were happening, plus Cuba which was while Mom was pregnant with me. The one that really scared the shit out of me was when Russia and China almost went at it over Viet Nam.

Personally I would not want to live in a world where there has been any kind of nuclear war - and I count WW2 as a semi-nuclear war too. So I think we should dump trident taking the view that if we are involved in any sort of exchange it will be the end of things as we ever want them to be.

I think that would increase the risk.

It is also worth reminding ourselves that highly sophisticated technologically advanced weaponry will out gun the likes of Iran, even if they had 'the bomb' for a few decades at least.

Nuclear weapons are different not merely in power, but in kind. You can replace most conventional arms with nuclear arms; but it doesn't work the other way 'round. The strategy involved is different.

[Clinton Huxley]

Just checking....yeah, Brazil is still there. Japan...not bombed (well, not since the Americans did it).........Kenya? Singularly un-nuked. Australia? Not been nuked since Blighty stopped testing bombs there but then, who could tell if it was nuked?

[charlou]

Just checking....yeah, Brazil is still there. Japan...not bombed (well, not since the Americans did it).........Kenya? Singularly un-nuked. Australia? Not been nuked since Blighty stopped testing bombs there but then, who could tell if it was nuked?

Julian Assange?

Woomera is a strange and interesting place, btw.

[Clinton Huxley]

Just checking....yeah, Brazil is still there. Japan...not bombed (well, not since the Americans did it).........Kenya? Singularly un-nuked. Australia? Not been nuked since Blighty stopped testing bombs there but then, who could tell if it was nuked?

Julian Assange?

Woomera is a strange and interesting place, btw.

Are former nuclear test sites in Australia all cordoned off or are they no radioactive now? Just wondering what happened to them.

[Feck]

They are a waste of money we should just use them up ....On France .

[Coito ergo sum]

We couldnt guarantee to wipe out the enemy's remaining capacity with a counterstrike. They would probably nuke us back. Everyone ends up worse. Id rather spend the money on conventional forces that could actually be used. Or on a shield. Our nukes are pointless.

There are no guarantees either way you go. Even if "We" get rid of all "our" nukes, that wouldn't guarantee that no nukes would be used.

The leverage a country has by having nuclear weapons is tremendous. That's the main reason people don't want Iran to get one. I think the UK could get rid of its nukes and still be fine, but if everyone in "the West" go rid of theirs first, then there would be an unmanageable power imbalance. The "other side" would not likely just stand down and say "oh, okay, we're just going to junk our nukes now."

So, your advancing the notion, really, as a practical matter, that the UK should just not have any nukes and rely on others, like the US and France, to do that dirty work for you.

[Jason]

Are you saying that Hux would like the UK to become a client state of the U.S.A. and France?

[Coito ergo sum]

Are you saying that Hux would like the UK to become a client state of the U.S.A. and France?

I think that Hux is of the impression that all that is needed is a charge of the light brigade....wut wut and tut tut, chip chip and cheerio, you lot!

[Clinton Huxley]

Having our "independent" nuclear deterrent already makes us a client state of the USA...

[Coito ergo sum]

Having our "independent" nuclear deterrent already makes us a client state of the USA...

Assuming arguendo that said allegation is true, at least then you're making a contribution to the overall defense of "the West" instead of leaving it all to someone else.