What would you think of a return of Silver money?

[Schneibster]

Nice to see folks who have good ethics.

No, I have no solution.

So let's all get stoned and watch the world burn, right?

Party on, dude.

That is the option most appear to be taking.

Where, on Uranus?

[Atheist-Lite]

Nice to see folks who have good ethics.

No, I have no solution.

So let's all get stoned and watch the world burn, right?

Party on, dude.

That is the option most appear to be taking.

Where, on Uranus?

You've missed the fun then?

[Schneibster]

I party.

Just not all the time.

[Atheist-Lite]

I party.

Just not all the time.

Somehow I suspected that.

[Seth]

Oh, I didn't mean exclusively silver or gold. But I do like the idea of high $ value coins.

We've tried that in the US to some extent with dollar coins, but the dumb motherfuckers at the Mint can't seem to understand that you can't make a high-value coin that's even approximately the same size as a quarter and have it be useful.

I love the idea of a 10 or 20 dollar coin, but they have to be tactilly (not just visually) substantially different from the existing coins to be useful, and they have to be a larger denomination than one dollar. Hexagonal or octagonal or something.

And for fuck's sake, can we PLEASE get rid of the penny, which costs 3.5 cents to mint?

[Tyrannical]

Oh, I didn't mean exclusively silver or gold. But I do like the idea of high $ value coins.

We've tried that in the US to some extent with dollar coins, but the dumb motherfuckers at the Mint can't seem to understand that you can't make a high-value coin that's even approximately the same size as a quarter and have it be useful.

I love the idea of a 10 or 20 dollar coin, but they have to be tactilly (not just visually) substantially different from the existing coins to be useful, and they have to be a larger denomination than one dollar. Hexagonal or octagonal or something.

And for fuck's sake, can we PLEASE get rid of the penny, which costs 3.5 cents to mint?

You could use a clear polymer shell, and even include those little braille dots. Probably easy enough to make it so that different denominations are easily identifiable by touch.

I just think gold and silver are pretty, and you could do a lot with 1 gram of "thin" gold / silver stamped into a coin and in a durable shell.

[JimC]

If there's any expert astrologer I shall say nothing. You can see by the state of the planet economics is so wrong...so fundementally flawed it should be thrown out of science and placed inside the woo-box where it safely belongs.

So your solution is kill off several billion people and go back to hunting and gathering.



Nice to see folks who have good ethics.

You mistake him. Crumple does not wish it, just thinks it will happen inevitably...

Every forum needs a prophet of doom...

[Schneibster]

Every forum needs a prophet of doom...

I suppose. Seems wrong somehow.

I'll get over it.

[Seth]

Oh, I didn't mean exclusively silver or gold. But I do like the idea of high $ value coins.

We've tried that in the US to some extent with dollar coins, but the dumb motherfuckers at the Mint can't seem to understand that you can't make a high-value coin that's even approximately the same size as a quarter and have it be useful.

I love the idea of a 10 or 20 dollar coin, but they have to be tactilly (not just visually) substantially different from the existing coins to be useful, and they have to be a larger denomination than one dollar. Hexagonal or octagonal or something.

And for fuck's sake, can we PLEASE get rid of the penny, which costs 3.5 cents to mint?

You could use a clear polymer shell, and even include those little braille dots. Probably easy enough to make it so that different denominations are easily identifiable by touch

I just think gold and silver are pretty, and you could do a lot with 1 gram of "thin" gold / silver stamped into a coin and in a durable shell.

That's actually a pretty good idea, although I'm not sure that a polymer shell would last very long. It would likely get scratched beyond repair very quickly, but it's worth some testing I think.

A gold-leaf and silver-leaf polymer coin could include impressing a hologram on the leaf insert for security, and if the leaf is thin enough (we're talking milligrams each), it couldn't be removed from the polymer without destroying it.

Interesting concept.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with using precious metals, and there's much to be said for doing so. After all, reinstituting a gold standard and issuing gold coins would create a demand for raw gold and likewise silver.

There's hundreds of thousands of silver mines that are still viable that were shut down during the Silver Panic in the 1800s and indeed some of them are being reopened today due to rising silver value.

The benefit of precious metal coinage is that it is intrinsically valuable, which means that even if the government tries to control the value of it, which is how the Federal Reserve controls our economy now...by controlling how many physical dollar bills are in circulation, the money still has intrinsic value no matter how the government tries to manipulate it. That takes power away from the government, reduces the opportunity for it to use "quantitative easing" (a weasel-word for deliberate inflation and devaluation of the money supply), and puts the value of money back in the hands of the markets.

[Svartalf]

The reason coins aren't used for high denominations is that is is very easy to counterfeit them. Coin clipping even makes sure that you have the right metal for the mould that you can make yourself in 5 minutes

You could encase a silver proof struck coin in a clear polymer shell with hologram security. A $100 coin might have ~$40 silver in it, a proof struck coin is prettier and harder to duplicate, and the polymer shell would prevent shaving the metal off the coin.

Something like this, it's a proof coin in a plastic case.


Maybe even low cost gold coins, that have maybe gram(s) of gold pressed into a thin coin sheet in a polymer shell.

WTF? the purpose of precious metal coinage, as opposed to the current system of fiat paper and billon currency, is that the money is its own store of value, and so does not need state backing to be valuable.
Making money that has precious metal content, but less than its nominal value just gets you the worst of both worlds... it STILL needs the fiduciary element to circulate freely rather than be hoarded or accepted at grossly inflated prices to reflect the insufficient actual value, YET would cut drastically into the seignorage the state normally gets from making "money" that is essentially tokens and banknotes in coin form.

Plus, as has already been pointed out, silver (or whatever coinage metal) would instantly go up in price due to the increased demand not matched by a sudden and gigantic increase in supply.

[Svartalf]

I just think gold and silver are pretty, and you could do a lot with 1 gram of "thin" gold / silver stamped into a coin and in a durable shell.

WTF do you have with them shells? What is it you don't get with the fact that such shells are not precisely cheap to manufacture (the polymer may be, but manufacturing the shell to minting, anticounterfeit specs wont), and that the more expensive money is to make, the more the economy will suffer. WWI tolled the bell of intinsincally valuable coinage, 1929 finished burying the feasibility of it in the modern world.

[Warren Dew]

The reason coins aren't used for high denominations is that is is very easy to counterfeit them. Coin clipping even makes sure that you have the right metal for the mould that you can make yourself in 5 minutes

Coins haven't been molded for ages - the are stamped from blanks - and we used to have coins with values as high as what's being suggested here, adjusting for inflation.

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the present coins, and going to a higher silver content with dollar coins the size of dimes. Such a coin might actually be used in preference to dollar bills. We could get rid of pennies and nickels and use those two shapes for dimes and half dollars.

[Svartalf]

but would the average guy one the street recognize a struck coin from a molded one?
plus the actual method of manufacture doesn't mean a thing to shaving and recasting the shaving for blanks.

[Warren Dew]

Milled edges deter shaving. That's why silver coins like dimes and quarters had milled edges when they were designed. Pennies and nickels were made of baser metals that didn't need to be protected, so they had less expensive smooth edges. More recent coins print mottos on the edges instead of or in addition to milling.

Cast coins would not stack as well as struck coins and likely could be detected without too much trouble.

I suspect the main issue with respect to counterfeiting would be the same as it is for bills: North Korea buying the same equipment as the Treasury or Mint and producing counterfeit currency in mass. Ever wonder why the designs on the U.S. bills have changed so rapidly recently? It's because North Korea has managed to get the plates for each one in a relatively short amount of time. With coins, it would be the dies instead of the plates that they would try to steal, but the risk would be the same.

[Seth]

Milled edges deter shaving. That's why silver coins like dimes and quarters had milled edges when they were designed. Pennies and nickels were made of baser metals that didn't need to be protected, so they had less expensive smooth edges. More recent coins print mottos on the edges instead of or in addition to milling.

Cast coins would not stack as well as struck coins and likely could be detected without too much trouble.

I suspect the main issue with respect to counterfeiting would be the same as it is for bills: North Korea buying the same equipment as the Treasury or Mint and producing counterfeit currency in mass. Ever wonder why the designs on the U.S. bills have changed so rapidly recently? It's because North Korea has managed to get the plates for each one in a relatively short amount of time. With coins, it would be the dies instead of the plates that they would try to steal, but the risk would be the same.

With modern technology, it's very difficult to counterfeit precious-metal coins. I saw a device used by coin dealers that "jiggles" the coin to measure both absolute weight and mass that can determine whether the coin is within specifications. I have no idea how it works though.

Counterfeiting only works if the face value of the counterfeited money exceeds the market value of the metal the coin is made of.

No US coin die or engraving plate has ever been stolen from the Mint.