The Almighty Unions

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JimC
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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by JimC » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:12 pm

Gallstones wrote:I think it is more likely that some unions got too big for their britches--adopted the same attitude of hubris and greed the business owners have been famous for--and made some mistakes; like people do.

Acknowledging that some overstepped does not mean they have outlived their usefulness. The dance between employer (profit) and employee (wages) is going to go on, each hoping to have a share of the advantages that come up. That means that unions will continue to have a place and be useful.

For all our smarts, humans are still a species of stupids.
Exactly. When unions start to have destructive effects, there are government mechanisms (at least in Australia) which can act to rectify the situation. Also, most unions recognise that excessively greedy wage demands will halt the growth of the companies that employ them.

It's a constant, messy series of compromises and minor battles, but that's how hominids do things...
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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by Gallstones » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:15 pm

The extant hominids are a species of stupids in all things.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010

The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by egbert » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:21 am

A sweatshop in the US or France will likely be found out, and picketed. And, the rights of individual employees have champions and those champions ride voting blocs into power, and those persons act create governmental institutions that protect those voting blocs (like labor boards, and workers rights and safety commissions).
NEW YORK—A new U.S. Department Of Labor study revealed that Martha Stewart Living housewares, Tommy Hilfiger clothing, iPod music players, forks, diapers, telephones, and every other conceivable consumer good in existence is manufactured by people laboring in sweatshop conditions. "Long hours, low wages, and unsafe work areas are involved in producing everything our civilization uses," Labor Secretary Elaine Chao said at a press conference Tuesday. "It is now literally impossible for anyone anywhere in this country to purchase any single thing that doesn't infringe on someone's human rights." Chao added that even the few items still made in the U.S., such as designer T-shirts and certain Toyota sedans, are also produced in deadly squalor, mostly by illegal immigrants. The Department of Labor recommended no immediate course of action in response to the report, which was compiled by 135 government employees in an 20-by-80-foot Quonset hut without air-conditioning
http://www.theonion.com/articles/report ... hops,5353/
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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by sandinista » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:35 am

egbert wrote:
A sweatshop in the US or France will likely be found out, and picketed. And, the rights of individual employees have champions and those champions ride voting blocs into power, and those persons act create governmental institutions that protect those voting blocs (like labor boards, and workers rights and safety commissions).
NEW YORK—A new U.S. Department Of Labor study revealed that Martha Stewart Living housewares, Tommy Hilfiger clothing, iPod music players, forks, diapers, telephones, and every other conceivable consumer good in existence is manufactured by people laboring in sweatshop conditions. "Long hours, low wages, and unsafe work areas are involved in producing everything our civilization uses," Labor Secretary Elaine Chao said at a press conference Tuesday. "It is now literally impossible for anyone anywhere in this country to purchase any single thing that doesn't infringe on someone's human rights." Chao added that even the few items still made in the U.S., such as designer T-shirts and certain Toyota sedans, are also produced in deadly squalor, mostly by illegal immigrants. The Department of Labor recommended no immediate course of action in response to the report, which was compiled by 135 government employees in an 20-by-80-foot Quonset hut without air-conditioning
http://www.theonion.com/articles/report ... hops,5353/
:{D
good stuff! sadly mostly true.
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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by Gallstones » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:41 am

Image
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010

The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by sandinista » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:50 am

:ccl:
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by egbert » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:27 pm

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by egbert » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:49 pm

Seth wrote:
egbert wrote:
Seth wrote:
some people can't imagine a society without authoritarianism
It's not a lack of imagination. Marxists are full of imagination. It's due to human nature and factual historical experience. No society without authoritarianism has ever existed, on a large scale, anywhere on earth, ever in its history.
The Inuit did not possess a highly organized society. In fact, organization in their society was almost non-existant and there were no divisions of rank or class.
http://www.astronomy.pomona.edu/archeo/ ... skimo.html
Seth wrote:Your utopian view of the world is ignorant of history and psychology.
:funny:
You want to go live in the Arctic in an igloo and hunt for seals with bone-tipped spears, be my guest.
Nice red herring. Quoting Hitchens, "If you gave him an enema, you could bury him in a matchbox."

:endit2:
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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by egbert » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:02 pm

Seth wrote: IThere are a plethora of laws. But the fact remains that the people of the community, either my local community or the national community, cannot get together and vote to end my life, or imprison me merely because they choose to do so, or take my property without providing "just compensation."

Fundamental, unalienable rights are not subject to being revoked by popular vote. That's a bedrock principle of our nation. This does not mean that the exercise of those rights may not be reasonably regulated in the public interest, but that's something entirely different from the tyranny of the majority.
:funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:


Image

Image

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by egbert » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:50 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote: President Franklin Roosevelt wrote:
A Roosevelt admirer, huh?
The NAACP hoped that the election of Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1932 would finally bring an end to lynching. A new bill was drafted in 1935 that would punish sheriffs who failed to protect their prisoners from lynch mobs. However, Roosevelt would not speak out in favor of the bill, arguing that white voters in the south would never forgive him and he would lose the next election.
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/ah-lynching9.html
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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by Seth » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:21 pm

egbert wrote:
Seth wrote: IThere are a plethora of laws. But the fact remains that the people of the community, either my local community or the national community, cannot get together and vote to end my life, or imprison me merely because they choose to do so, or take my property without providing "just compensation."

Fundamental, unalienable rights are not subject to being revoked by popular vote. That's a bedrock principle of our nation. This does not mean that the exercise of those rights may not be reasonably regulated in the public interest, but that's something entirely different from the tyranny of the majority.
:funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:



Why you would point to crimes as a refutation of my statement is something of a puzzle. You merely affirm the need for the rule of law and the protection of fundamental civil rights.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by Seth » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:23 pm

egbert wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote: President Franklin Roosevelt wrote:
A Roosevelt admirer, huh?
Not at all, even a little bit, but when even the most virulent and radical Progressive of all time, whose Progressive abuses of the Constitution exceeded anything done by any other President former or present, says that public sector unionization is a bad idea, one ought to pay attention.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by sandinista » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:34 am

Seth wrote:
egbert wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote: President Franklin Roosevelt wrote:
A Roosevelt admirer, huh?
Not at all, even a little bit, but when even the most virulent and radical Progressive of all time, whose Progressive abuses of the Constitution exceeded anything done by any other President former or present, says that public sector unionization is a bad idea, one ought to pay attention.
I don't think the question was aimed at you.
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by Seth » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:38 am

sandinista wrote:
Seth wrote:
egbert wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote: President Franklin Roosevelt wrote:
A Roosevelt admirer, huh?
Not at all, even a little bit, but when even the most virulent and radical Progressive of all time, whose Progressive abuses of the Constitution exceeded anything done by any other President former or present, says that public sector unionization is a bad idea, one ought to pay attention.
I don't think the question was aimed at you.
Don't care. :coffee:
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: The Almighty Unions

Post by sandinista » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:02 am

Seth wrote:
sandinista wrote:
Seth wrote:
egbert wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote: President Franklin Roosevelt wrote:
A Roosevelt admirer, huh?
Not at all, even a little bit, but when even the most virulent and radical Progressive of all time, whose Progressive abuses of the Constitution exceeded anything done by any other President former or present, says that public sector unionization is a bad idea, one ought to pay attention.
I don't think the question was aimed at you.
Don't care. :coffee:
Don't care if you don't care. :?
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.

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