The Reign of Trump

[DaveDodo007]

You will never accept that you support a bankrupt ideology

Social democracy is a bankrupt ideology?

Yes, check out how much all these countries owe.

The US owes a fuckload more money than Norway.

A shitty little cucked country that discovered oil offshore, picking outliners to make a point is just sad.

[pErvinalia]

Oh, so it's the no true social-democracy fallacy?

Go and look up the US's debt to GDP ratio vs the rest of the oecd. Then sterilise yourself.

[Forty Two]

Just 11 million deportations, taking an axe to the tax code, and a bit of brick laying to go.

Enter the country legally or get the fuck out. Reward hard/smart working people, the horror. Create jobs, ho noes, FDR will be turning in his grave (he won't.)

Trump promised that 11 million people will be swiftly deported.

He did not promise that, and his position on this is more than a soundbite. His initial policy proposal is to get rid of those illegal aliens who have committed crimes in the US.

Think about that for a moment. 11 million people. Aside from the improbable logistics of such an operation, how many of those 11 million have children who are American citizens? If even half of them have at least one child that's over 5 million children left without at least one parent. How many children might be left with no parents? If even half of those those children have both their parents deported that's 2.5 million homeless children without parents or a means of support. [/quote]

This is not the first time in the US where this issue of millions of illegal aliens has come up. In the past, amnesty was granted in exchange for the "promise" that immigration reform would be passed that would prevent future millions of illegals entering and staying long term. Once the amnesty is granted, the reform is forgotten about.

There is certainly nuance to the issue; however, if the policy is to get rid of millions of criminal illegal immigrants first, and then proceed on to the portion that are here illegally but who have not put down significant roots, then that will take care of most of the problem, and at least stem the rising tide of illegal immigration. We can have a discussion about anchor-babies, and paths to citizenship or permanent residence for folks that have been here a long time and are raising kids.

There is no civilized country - you know, the countries folks always point to when they declare a policy or practice to be followed by "every other western industrialized country," etc. -- there is no civilized country that would put up with what the US puts up with.

And, frankly, I'm sick of people from countries who toss illegal immigrants out swiftly and assuredly complaining about Americans who desire the same. If a person goes to France on a visa and stays there illegally, and he's found out, he's going to be put on a fucking airplane and sent to his country of citizenship. This is not controversial. France is not sitting there going "come one, come all, if you can cross our border you can stay - just get pregnant on French soil and you can stay permanently." Name me the fucking country that does that.

Look - the US is very friendly to immigration, compared to most other western industrialized nations. We have more non-immigrant visitors for business and pleasure and other purposes than any other country, both absolute and per capita. We have more legal immigrants per year, both in absolute terms, and per capita, than any other country. We have more new citizens every year, per capita and in absolute terms than any other country.

We also, unfortunately, have a big problem with people coming to the US illegally, or coming to the US legally and then staying beyond their visa authorization. It's to the tune of 5% of the population of the country. That's not peanuts. Solving it is important.

Is the state going to take them in, or are they supposed to make their own way in the world,

Children generally stay with their parents. However, once again, we don't get to the hard cases of people coming here years ago and having children here who are now growing up American, until we have already addressed the issue of millions of illegal immigrants who do not fit that description. The legitimate issue of children of illegal immigrants is not a reason to ignore the problem as a whole.

somehow? If even half of those kids are taken into a home, either by a relative, or fostered, or placed in some sort of care, that's still 1.25 million children left over.

First, provide some evidence for your numbers. Second, once again, even if we can solve half the 11 million illegal immigrant problem by getting rid of 5.5 million people who came here illegally and don't have anchor children here, then we have gone a long way to stemming the tide of illegal immigration.

What does your country do with people who just give the middle finger to your immigration laws, walk into the country illegally or overstay their visas, and decide to set up shop in your country and raise a family, knowing full well they have not complied with your immigration laws? You give them medals? You house and feed them? You give them state benefits?

How many have to starve to death, or die of exposure, or end up in detention or being exploited and abused before this becomes a problem, let alone a national disgrace? And I'm being generous with my assumptions here.

What do you folks do in your country? Can we send 5.5 million illegals from here to your country? Why not? Why don't you invite the poor and downtrodden of Mexico into your country? Would it be a problem if millions decided to head for your borders?

As I said, this is aside from the improbable logistics of such an operation which would involve, hiring a huge number of officials and training them, finding buildings, setting up IT and communication systems, managing all that, developing systems for identifying and locating targets, organising transport, drawing up rotas, setting quotas, sending out the snatch squads, massively ramping up the court system, which needs expensive judges and lawyers, court officials, admin support, buildings to put them in, canteens, energy, staff accommodation, secure containment facilities, toilets, bog rolls, guards, uniforms, guns, ammo, shackles. The list goes on and on... Would there be an appeals procedure for those snatched by mistake?

What do you do in your country? Maybe we can adopt your policies.

Would people be able to apply for citizenship or sponsorship under certain circumstances?

A person entering illegally would currently not be permitted to apply for "citizenship" in the US. I daresay there is no western country in the world that allows people who just bypassed inspection and crossed the borer without showing a passport to immigration officials, become citizens of that country. Is there? Like, if a Colombian person heads into France without a visa, and without inspection at the border, and starts living there in France, and then he hooks up with a girlfriend and knocks her up, and he's discovered 5 years later, with a child starting school, and a girlfriend he is helping to support - what does France do with that guy? What does Germany do? What does Russia do? What does the UK do? What does Mexico do?

what's the enlightened course of action here?

[Tero]

trump-to-finish-coal-furnace-project in white house
http://karireport.blogspot.com/2016/11/ ... oject.html

[pErvinalia]

why isn't this posted in the blog thread?!

[Tero]

What blog thread?

[pErvinalia]

Jeez. I don't know why i bother sometimes..

[Tero]

Hey, my blogs are factual! Everything I predict about Trump will be true in 1-2 years.

[Brian Peacock]

...
Trump promised that 11 million people will be swiftly deported.

He did not promise that, and his position on this is more than a soundbite. His initial policy proposal is to get rid of those illegal aliens who have committed crimes in the US.

Yes, one of his point-by-point promises in the Phoenix, AZ, immigration speech at the end of August this year was that every 'criminal alien' will be deported, regardless of whether it's a felony or not.

Number three. Number three, this is the one, I think it's so great. It's hard to believe, people don't even talk about it. Zero tolerance for criminal aliens. Zero. Zero. Zero. They don't come in here. They don't come in here. According to federal data, there are at least 2 million, 2 million, think of it, criminal aliens now inside of our country, 2 million people, criminal aliens. We will begin moving them out day one. As soon as I take office. Day one.... Day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone. And you can call it deported if you want. The press doesn't like that term. You can call it whatever the hell you want. They're gone. Beyond the 2 million, and there are vast numbers of additional criminal illegal immigrants who have fled, but their days have run out in this country. The crime will stop. They're going to be gone. It will be over. They're going out. They're going out fast.... We will issue detainers for illegal immigrants who are arrested for any crime whatsoever, and they will be placed into immediate removal proceedings, if we even have to do that.

It's interesting that what he presented as a promise in the form of a firm commitment has now become a mere proposal, an aspiration, a nice idea. Nonetheless, whether not this constitutes his 'initial policy proposal' is hard to tell - I thought his 'initial' idea was to build The Wall.

Number one, are you ready? Are you ready? We will build a great wall along the southern border. And Mexico will pay for the wall.

Whatever. Deporting 'criminal aliens' certainly doesn't comprise the whole of his policy 'proposal'.

The 11 million figure is a long-standing guestimate based on 2012 data...

source: 5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S.
Pew Research Center [link]

...the numbers may be a bit higher or a bit lower, but his intent regarding the application of the law (and the enactment of new laws) and the deportation of undocumented immigrants was made quite clear in that speech.

In a Trump administration all immigration laws will be enforced, will be enforced. As with any law enforcement activity, we will set priorities, but unlike this administration, no one will be immune or exempt from enforcement, and ICE and Border Patrol officers will be allowed to do their jobs, the way their jobs are supposed to be done. Anyone who has entered the United States illegally is subject to deportation, that is what it means to have laws and to have a country, otherwise we don't have a country. Our enforcement priorities will include removing criminals, gang members, security threats, visa overstays, public charges. That is those relying on public welfare or straining the safety net along with millions of recent illegal arrivals and overstays who've come here under this current corrupt administration.

So how does this not relate to that 11 million figure?

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not criticising the US for moral laxity or for being uncivilised, I'm criticising Trump's utterances on immigration, his view that immigrants are a strain on the economy and a stain on the national character, and that his simple remedies will 'Make America Great AgainTM'. The US needs to have an honest conversation about the composition and structure of its society and labour market. It's not alone in that regards. Far from it in fact. However, Trump's glib rhetoric, and goals, which, frankly, are unachievable without the granting the state huge resources and draconian powers, are not a positive contribute to that conversation - they're a distraction, a mechanism for blame and for deferring responsibility. I urge the US to learn the lessons of history, that's all.

And with that I think I've addressed your point in its entirety.

[Scot Dutchy]

Trump never expected to win. Poor little rich boy playing a game. Heard that somewhere before not so long ago?

[Cunt]

bigfoot hunters... all morons.

Morons to the right, morons to the left, morons in front, drooling and gibbering.

It's business as usual in the Good Ol' USA, folks! But don't worry, Disneyworld is open and Micky D's is having a 2-4-1 Big Mac sale!

I thought so about the bigfoot hunters, but met one, and chatted with him at length. He wasn't a moron at all.

When I asked him what evidence he had seen himself, he said none.

When I asked him what he would do if he found one, he said he would provide a sample (kill it) to be studied.

When I asked him if he expected to be successful in his search, he said probably not.

Weird hobby, but it got him out-doors in the fresh air.

Keep your guns, But Trump is coming for your pot:
John Hudak, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who studies marijuana policy, said this memo was instrumental in allowing Colorado and Washington to set up their recreational marijuana markets. “A lot of people forget that [recreational marijuana markets in] Colorado and Washington were pretty much on hold until the governors there received guidance from the Department of Justice,” Hudak said in an interview.

WP

I am not such a big supporter of legalizing weed. I used to be, but recently had my opinion changed by a guy called Hitchins.

[Tyrannical]

Most will simply self deport just like they did in the big illegal crackdown of the 1950s. The US actually has strict immigration laws but the laws are not enforced. Go after the employers of illegals and it will be over.

[L'Emmerdeur]

We have more non-immigrant visitors for business and pleasure and other purposes than any other country, both absolute and per capita.

Hmm, do you have a source for this claim, or is it the usual baseless Forty Two babble?

The world's most visited countries

1 France - 83,767,000 annual visitors
2 United States - 75,011,000

From the above source, on a per capita basis Andorra leaves the US far in the dust.

We have more legal immigrants per year, both in absolute terms, and per capita, than any other country.

Again, do you have a source for this?

In per capita rates, the United States place 19th out of 24 countries. That means that the United States received fewer immigrants per capita in 2012-13 compared with several European countries, New Zealand, Australia and Canada.

[source]

[Cunt]

Why do all the crying lefties want to come here when they don't get their way in an election? Is Mexico off their list because of racism? Or something else?

[cronus]

Cloverfield 10 writ large where the entire thinking population of the USA are being held hostage by a moron and his band of cohorts.