THIS is why we're intervening in Libya

[Coito ergo sum]

I give up COE do you want to talk to me or not? If you do then address my points if not don't. I wont waste my time addressing blatant straw men. I just don't have the time, will or need to do it.

Look dude no ones argument is going down in flames, it's all good, you need to stop this silly game and just start answering peoples points.

I addressed your points.

Please, though - if there is a point that you think I missed, please cut-and-paste it so that we are both on the same page, and anyone else following the conversation can be on the same page too. I'll then state or re-state my response to your point. Fair?

No you just accused me of trying to act as an apologist for my nation even though I had said the exact opposite. I gave up on you ages ago, you are talking to yourself worse than Seth is, at least you're not ranting about socialism though.

I didn't accuse of that.

I figured your response would be exactly as you just chose to respond, because you know I did respond to your points.

I'll leave it to you- state the point you feel I did not address, or don't. It's up to you. The fact that you don't, however, says everything anyone needs to know.

No you didn't you just compeletely reinvented everything I said to make one massive non sequitur.

It doesn't matter anyway unless you make an effort to answer any point I've made conversation is over. Live with that or don't I don't care.

Yawn - all you have to do is direct me to the post you want answered. You can cut and paste it, or you can link to it. I'd be happy to.

I'm not going wade through the thread and guess which answer you deem unsatisfactory. Just put up or shut up. I'm happy to answer any point you post in response to this one. Feel free. Again, the fact that you won't illustrates your evasion.

[Aos Si]

Yawn - all you have to do is direct me to the post you want answered. You can cut and paste it, or you can link to it. I'd be happy to.

I'm not going wade through the thread and guess which answer you deem unsatisfactory. Just put up or shut up. I'm happy to answer any point you post in response to this one. Feel free. Again, the fact that you won't illustrates your evasion.

Well I'm not repeating what I said so that's it then. You know what post it is its when you went off on some weird rant about me acting as an apologist for my country and excusing their actions, it was weird to the point of delusion.

I edited here are is the first of 22,100,000 hits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

[Seth]

My Lai, amongst others. Although that wasn't "America being convicted" because a nation cannot commit war-crimes, only its soldiers can.

And that was perpetrated by a small group of soldiers who violated the UCMJ and the standards of the Nuremburg and Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals.

We can place that against the similar crimes of various North Vietnamese soldiers, and the policies of the North Vietnamese Army towards our prisoners.

To reiterate, there are very few nations of any size who can claim moral purity when it comes to warfare.

[Seth]

George Bernard Shaw was not a racist. OMFG.

You're right, he was just a strong proponent of eugenics. He thought that the working person was too stupid and ignorant to vote wisely and therefore modern democracy was a form of oppression. He thought that eugenics would save the world by creating a race of long-lived supermen who would have the brains and experience to govern wisely and in the best interest of the thrall class. After visiting the USSR in the 1930s where he met Stalin, Shaw became a supporter of Stalinism. He broadcast a lecture on American national radio telling his audience that any 'skilled workman...of suitable age and good character' would be welcomed and given work in the Soviet Union." But, you're right - he wasn't a racist.

You cannot be a proponent of eugenics and desire to create a race of long-lived supermen without being a racist. Like most British eugenicists, he publicly argued on social worth based on class, not explicitly race, but factually speaking, various races in the UK were, at the time, largely relegated to the underclasses as a matter of social convention. And Shaw was a strong supporter of the works of Francis Galton, who was an explicit racist and one of the fathers of eugenics.

Taken together with his description of "the uncorrected sense of moral perspective" and "impulsive, unstable nature" of "savages", Galton's writings supply abundant evidence to suggest that - decades before eugenics was "brought into disrepute" by the Nazis - the founding father of eugenics was already advancing positions that sit firmly in what some might call 'the exterminatory wing' of late Victorian racial science.

As Dr Owen quite rightly observes, eugenics drew support from many 'liberal', 'progressive', and indeed 'socialist' figures, including George Bernard Shaw, HG Wells, Harold Laski and the Webbs. Nowhere in our film is it claimed that these eminent 'liberal' Victorians were 'proto-Nazis'. But it is clear that many prominent figures within the British 'liberal' intelligentsia explicitly supported ideas of racial purity - notions that were promoted by the leading eugenicists of the time. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentar ... tory.shtml

Thus, although the racist link was not as clearly explicit as it was with the Nazis, Shaw, a Fabian Socialist, was clearly a racist, and an all-around evil motherfucker.

[egbert]

Your point is? Lifestyle brag? I'm impressed.

My point is that one can travel using these modes of travel from Texas to California.

And the relevance to Texas schoolbooks is? Strawman?

[egbert]

Saudi Arabia is a treaty partner and ally.

Uh, weren't most of the 9/11 hijackers Saudis?

Great partners and allies, huh!

Are you suggesting that it was the Saudi Arabian government that was behind 9/11?

All the suspected hijackers were from Saudi Arabia (fifteen hijackers), United Arab Emirates (two hijackers), Lebanon (one hijacker) and Egypt (one hijacker).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_ ... 11_attacks

http://www.documentarywire.com/bush-family-fortunes

This hour long documentary follows the award-winning reporter-sleuth Greg Palast on the trail of the Bush family, from Florida election finagling, to the Saudi connection, to the Bush team’s spiking the FBI investigation of the bin Laden family and the secret State Department plans for post-war Iraq.

GW Bush reaction to 9/11 news...



Sumthin fishy about all this...

[Seth]

Yawn - all you have to do is direct me to the post you want answered. You can cut and paste it, or you can link to it. I'd be happy to.

I'm not going wade through the thread and guess which answer you deem unsatisfactory. Just put up or shut up. I'm happy to answer any point you post in response to this one. Feel free. Again, the fact that you won't illustrates your evasion.

Well I'm not repeating what I said so that's it then. You know what post it is its when you went off on some weird rant about me acting as an apologist for my country and excusing their actions, it was weird to the point of delusion.

I edited here are is the first of 22,100,000 hits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

All of which are maunderings by America-haters and thus are of no interest.

The fact remains that the US has never been convicted in any court anywhere of war crimes. Some individual military officers and soldiers have been prosecuted, but the number is very small.

The OP, interestingly, began as a display of the atrocities of Kadaffay and a JUSTIFICATION for US military action in Libya. Somehow it's morphed into a debate about the comparative evil of various nations as regards atrocities, with you asserting that the US is the most atrocious of all, which is simply stupidity made manifest.

[Thumpalumpacus]

My Lai, amongst others. Although that wasn't "America being convicted" because a nation cannot commit war-crimes, only its soldiers can.

And that was perpetrated by a small group of soldiers who violated the UCMJ and the standards of the Nuremburg and Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals.

We can place that against the similar crimes of various North Vietnamese soldiers, and the policies of the North Vietnamese Army towards our prisoners.

To reiterate, there are very few nations of any size who can claim moral purity when it comes to warfare.

Indeed, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. As CEO points out above, soldiers of all nations commit atrocities in time of war. There is no such thing as a "good" country or a "bad" country; in war, all are barbaric.

[Seth]

My Lai, amongst others. Although that wasn't "America being convicted" because a nation cannot commit war-crimes, only its soldiers can.

And that was perpetrated by a small group of soldiers who violated the UCMJ and the standards of the Nuremburg and Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals.

We can place that against the similar crimes of various North Vietnamese soldiers, and the policies of the North Vietnamese Army towards our prisoners.

To reiterate, there are very few nations of any size who can claim moral purity when it comes to warfare.

Indeed, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. As CEO points out above, soldiers of all nations commit atrocities in time of war. There is no such thing as a "good" country or a "bad" country; in war, all are barbaric.

I disagree. Neither the United States nor the Allies were "bad" or "barbaric" in WWII.

[Coito ergo sum]

GW Bush reaction to 9/11 news...



Sumthin fishy about all this...

LOL - yes, it was a grand conspiracy of which GWBush knew in advance what was going to happen. All went perfectly as planned....except....they were too stupid to just have him be sitting in the West Wing that morning, not on camera.

[Coito ergo sum]

My Lai, amongst others. Although that wasn't "America being convicted" because a nation cannot commit war-crimes, only its soldiers can.

And that was perpetrated by a small group of soldiers who violated the UCMJ and the standards of the Nuremburg and Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals.

We can place that against the similar crimes of various North Vietnamese soldiers, and the policies of the North Vietnamese Army towards our prisoners.

To reiterate, there are very few nations of any size who can claim moral purity when it comes to warfare.

Indeed, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. As CEO points out above, soldiers of all nations commit atrocities in time of war. There is no such thing as a "good" country or a "bad" country; in war, all are barbaric.

War is a barbarism, but that doesn't mean all are equal in this regard. The Japanese and the Germans in WW2 were far and away the leaders in this regard. I mean, come on - the body counts aren't even comparable....Japan institutionalized torture and rape. The US got endless shit for waterboarding like two guys. Japan set up rape camps in Korea and slaughtered millions in China and the Phillipines.

[egbert]

LOL - yes, it was a grand conspiracy of which GWBush knew in advance what was going to happen. All went perfectly as planned....except....they were too stupid to just have him be sitting in the West Wing that morning, not on camera.

Who says "they" were in on it?....why would the Bush crime family/Saudi Dictators alliance risk sharing the conspiracy any more than necessary?
GWB was just too stupid to act surprised at the news....
The earlier Egypt air suicide crash was a test run to see if the Islamist brainwashing was effective enough to actually carry out the plan.

Given the tenants in the twin towers, and the total destruction of all their records, it was enough to forestall the inevitable economic collapse for years.

[Coito ergo sum]

LOL - yes, it was a grand conspiracy of which GWBush knew in advance what was going to happen. All went perfectly as planned....except....they were too stupid to just have him be sitting in the West Wing that morning, not on camera.

Who says "they" were in on it?....why would the Bush crime family/Saudi Dictators alliance risk sharing the conspiracy any more than necessary?
GWB was just too stupid to act surprised at the news....

Smart enough to be "in" on it, but too stupid to act surprised.

Actually, his behavior when I see the video of the My Pet Goat reading looks quite natural - as if he was just told something very dramatic and quite unexpected.

The earlier Egypt air suicide crash was a test run to see if the Islamist brainwashing was effective enough to actually carry out the plan.

Was? Or, "is speculated to have been...based on no actual evidence?"

Given the tenants in the twin towers, and the total destruction of all their records, it was enough to forestall the inevitable economic collapse for years.

What records were totally destroyed. Most of the computer records were backed up off-site, and certainly the IRS, SEC, and investment banking firm records were.

[egbert]

War is a barbarism, but that doesn't mean all are equal in this regard. The Japanese and the Germans in WW2 were far and away the leaders in this regard. I mean, come on - the body counts aren't even comparable....Japan institutionalized torture and rape. The US got endless shit for waterboarding like two guys. Japan set up rape camps in Korea and slaughtered millions in China and the Phillipines.

Right. Let's forget all about the illegal bombing of Cambodia and Burma. Let's not mention the betrayal of the Kurds. Let's not even think about the Kissinger/Ford OK "thumbs up" for the slaughter in East Timor.
Let's pretend the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was real.
And, South America - well, we just KNOW that any Amerikkkan intervention there was on the side of DEMOCRACY!

Tell us about the CIA intervention in Guyana to overthrow a "Socialist" democratically elected government that, horror of horrors, actually gave FREE MILK to SCHOOLCHILDREN!
Talk about fucking commies!
Amerikkka soon fixed that - under their puppet leader, Forbes Burnham, Guyana turned from a a rice exporting country, easily feeding it's own people, to a beggar economy, asking it's expatriates to send "barrels" home to feed their relatives, and the corrupt government officials.
I CAN HARDLY WAIT FOR THE CHIRPING CRICKETS FROM THE RIGHT WING LIARS!

[Coito ergo sum]

Even all that is nothing compared to what the Japanese did under Hirohito. Not even close.