Do you hate Tony Blair?

[AnInconvenientScotsman]

...A great PM first has to be a strong PM...

I don't agree this necessarily follows. A truly great PM could be a PM who picks a great and strong cabinet in whom they can have confidence enough to let them get-on with their jobs.

I'd disagree with you, there. John Major was perhaps the most collegiate of modern PMs and his government was a complete failure, despite the strength of his Cabinet. A PM who relies to much on his Cabinet is not leading government, as he should, he's allowing government to lead him.

That isn't to say that a dictatorial PM is any better. The PM should be a moderating force in Cabinet, with the capability to overturn and bypass ministers when necessary, but ultimately with the self-control to allow ministers to do their jobs most of the time.

[Warren Dew]

What's worse is that the fucker didn't even have the guts to express his views on atheists while he was in office. He was perfectly happy to take the votes of non-believers while secretly despising them - where's the morality in that?

To me, it actually seems a strength for a leader to ignore personal views with no bearing on his job while in office.

[AnInconvenientScotsman]

What's worse is that the fucker didn't even have the guts to express his views on atheists while he was in office. He was perfectly happy to take the votes of non-believers while secretly despising them - where's the morality in that?

To me, it actually seems a strength for a leader to ignore personal views with no bearing on his job while in office.

He didn't, though. He supported faith-schools far more than non-denominational schools. He let his faith dictate policy - secularism fail.

[Pappa]

I hate him because he's an utter cunt.

He thinks it's OK to break international law and kill thousands of innocent people just because he has a personal/religious conviction that it's the right thing to do.

He's a liar.

He removed many basic civil liberties here in the UK.

He's allowed state funded faith schools and academies to start teaching creationism in the UK.

He's a wanker.

[Pappa]

I dislike him. He could have talked a little sense into GW Bush, but chose not to.

Very good point. Instead, he prayed with him.

[Pappa]

Tony "direct line to God, atheists are a threat" Blair? Not just a cunt but the cunt's cunt.

That too!

[Horwood Beer-Master]

What's worse is that the fucker didn't even have the guts to express his views on atheists while he was in office. He was perfectly happy to take the votes of non-believers while secretly despising them - where's the morality in that?

To me, it actually seems a strength for a leader to ignore personal views with no bearing on his job while in office.

He didn't ignore his personal views, he just didn't reveal his personal views.

[Coito ergo sum]

He is a fucking cunt and so is his wife, bitches.

What makes him a fucking cunt?

Iraq, sucking up to that Australian shit, fucking Bush, that bastard Blair has been the most reactionary twat since Thatcher.

"Reactionary" as in opposition to socialism or communism?

[Coito ergo sum]

I dislike him. He could have talked a little sense into GW Bush, but chose not to.

From what I've heard him say, he was not of a different opinion than Bush, and in fact was four-square 100% in favor of the Iraq War, so it's not as if he just kept his mouth shut on things he might have wanted to say.

[Coito ergo sum]

I always liked Blair. He seemed like a knowledgeable fellow, although I was never too up on his politics. I always thought he would fall left of center given that he was in the Labour Party, and not the Tories. In any case, as an American I take my hat off to Tony Blair for the way he, personally, stood with us after 9/11/01. I still get choked up, 9 years later, when I think about Blair's speech where he did not just suggest that the UK was with us, or behind us, or would help us in any way, etc. - he said that the UK would "stand shoulder-to-shoulder" with the US in the coming struggle, and he stood true to his word. That was something no other leader in the world did, and those words "shoulder-to-shoulder" meant something far more than any other leader's comments meant. Most everyone else said words to the effect of "we'll be right behind you, every step of the way..." -- whereas Blair made it clear that the UK understood that the fight was theirs as much as ours. Regardless of his domestic policies, and whether he is a "cunt" or a "wanker," or even regardless of his viewpoints on religion, which I more than wholeheartedly disagree with, I will always think highly of him for that.

[AnInconvenientScotsman]

He is a fucking cunt and so is his wife, bitches.

What makes him a fucking cunt?

Iraq, sucking up to that Australian shit, fucking Bush, that bastard Blair has been the most reactionary twat since Thatcher.

"Reactionary" as in opposition to socialism or communism?

No, Blair was a Third Way socialist, a sort of Thatcherism-esque, pragmatism based socialism.

[Pappa]

I always liked Blair. He seemed like a knowledgeable fellow, although I was never too up on his politics. I always thought he would fall left of center given that he was in the Labour Party, and not the Tories. In any case, as an American I take my hat off to Tony Blair for the way he, personally, stood with us after 9/11/01. I still get choked up, 9 years later, when I think about Blair's speech where he did not just suggest that the UK was with us, or behind us, or would help us in any way, etc. - he said that the UK would "stand shoulder-to-shoulder" with the US in the coming struggle, and he stood true to his word. That was something no other leader in the world did, and those words "shoulder-to-shoulder" meant something far more than any other leader's comments meant. Most everyone else said words to the effect of "we'll be right behind you, every step of the way..." -- whereas Blair made it clear that the UK understood that the fight was theirs as much as ours. Regardless of his domestic policies, and whether he is a "cunt" or a "wanker," or even regardless of his viewpoints on religion, which I more than wholeheartedly disagree with, I will always think highly of him for that.

You actually think he was being sincere with all that "shoulder to shoulder" shit?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I don't agree this necessarily follows. A truly great PM could be a PM who picks a great and strong cabinet in whom they can have confidence enough to let them get-on with their jobs.

The election system rewards the duplicitous, ambitious and slick-talking. They are the type that gets elected because everyone else either (a) doesn't use any means, including outright lies, false promises and spin to promote themselves as the best candidate (b) doesn't really want the job that much (c) comes across as a bumbling, stuttering fool in interviews.

Given that that is the type of person populating the pool of MPs from whom a cabinet is to be chosen, where is any PM (even assuming he or she wanted to) supposed to find "a great and strong cabinet in whom they can have confidence enough to let them get-on with their jobs" without having to spend 90% of their time watching out for the inevitable knife in the back?

It is an old adage that anyone that seeks political power should be barred from wielding it. Democracy is geared up to promote those that want it most to the top job! Whatever your original motivation in seeking office, by the time you get there, your principles lie in tatters around you, torn to shreds by the claws of compromise.



Cynical, moi?

[Warren Dew]

He didn't, though. He supported faith-schools far more than non-denominational schools. He let his faith dictate policy - secularism fail.

Don't get me wrong - when I say Blair was the "best prime minister since Thatcher", you have to keep in mind who I'm comparing him to. I do think he had some good policies, but I don't think they were all good.

That said, I do appreciate when political leaders keep their more inflammatory personal opinions to themselves while in office. For example, as someone who got married in a Wiccan ceremony, I'm pretty glad Bush saved his "witchcraft isn't a religion" statement until after he was again a private citizen. Saying something like that while in office could have resulted in official or unofficial attacks against CUUP (Church of Unitarian Universalist Pagans), for example; saying it after he left office had no such effect.

[AnInconvenientScotsman]

He didn't, though. He supported faith-schools far more than non-denominational schools. He let his faith dictate policy - secularism fail.

Don't get me wrong - when I say Blair was the "best prime minister since Thatcher", you have to keep in mind who I'm comparing him to. I do think he had some good policies, but I don't think they were all good.

That said, I do appreciate when political leaders keep their more inflammatory personal opinions to themselves while in office. For example, as someone who got married in a Wiccan ceremony, I'm pretty glad Bush saved his "witchcraft isn't a religion" statement until after he was again a private citizen. Saying something like that while in office could have resulted in official or unofficial attacks against CUUP (Church of Unitarian Universalist Pagans), for example; saying it after he left office had no such effect.

Yeah, considering the only intermediate was that bumbling idiot Major, it's no small wonder.