All Things Trump: The Return Of The King

[Sean Hayden]

There’s not a spine in Washington.

[pErvinalia]

I hope America can come back after this nightmare.

[Sean Hayden]

I don’t see it happening. We don’t have the leadership.

[pErvinalia]

Is there hope that Vance isn't really as extreme as Trump? He did call him a Nazi. So eventually (hopefully soon) Trump will die. So we'll either end up with Vance or a limp-arse Democrat. Neither hopefully will be as bad as Trump.

[Sean Hayden]

I don’t know, it’s bad. He called him a nazi when he believed Trump would fail. He’s kissed his ass since it became obvious Trump’s the base. But who cares. Trump is just a means to an end— he gave them a simplified interface to their base—and all of these guys want the same horrible things. Maybe when Trump dies it goes with him, I don’t know.

Also keep in mind democrats have nothing like this, nothing. Even our hatred of Trump does not give any candidate a means to sway all of us one way or the other. Still, people are assuming—myself included most days—that we’re going to win because, duh, it’s Trump.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah the base is a worry, going by some of the things they've said. Some of these people are just nasty humans. Maybe there'll always be a need for a President to represent these people. More Trumps to come in your future...?

[Svartalf]

I hope America can come back after this nightmare.

I so wish too... but the odds seem long, as the dems look rather off their game and the repugnants seem quite willing to make do with the maga mob so long as it keeps them in power and their pocketbooks fed.

[Svartalf]

Is there hope that Vance isn't really as extreme as Trump? He did call him a Nazi. So eventually (hopefully soon) Trump will die. So we'll either end up with Vance or a limp-arse Democrat. Neither hopefully will be as bad as Trump.

looks to me that if vance is not an acceptable frump substitute, he's going to be put away and some other capitalist moron put in his place.

[Brian Peacock]

Yeah the base is a worry, going by some of the things they've said. Some of these people are just nasty humans. Maybe there'll always be a need for a President to represent these people. More Trumps to come in your future...?

MAGA is a minority outlook. Various pollings estimate about a third of Republican voters or about 15% of national voters would identify as MAGAs. Milage varies of course, depending on who's doing the asking.

Generally I think the existence and influence of MAGA is over emphasised when trying to explain US politics. Though the power of Trump's MAGA base definitely impacts the politics of the GOP, the underlying ideology of Trumpism (beyond Trump seeing Trumpism as being all about Trump!) isn't determined by the MAGA base, nor does it necessarily articulate or represent their interests and concerns.

They're not a mass movement steering the country towards some form of self-righteous, self-justifying authoritarianism. The people seemingly hell-bent on setting the US on that kind of course are of a completely different class, with different interests, values, expectations and life experiences. It might be a cult of personality with Trump as its figurehead but MAGA is not appointing Supreme Court judges, or defunding academia, or ignoring international laws and treaties, or rolling back civil rights and environmental protections, or crippling civil capacity or impairing community resilience, or putting troops on the streets, or imposing economically deleterious tariffs, or rounding up, detaining and deporting US citizens, valid visa holders or the undocumented (which is a civil offence in the US not a criminal one). MAGA didn't write the Project 2025 blueprint, or fund the election campaign. MAGA are not determining policy or overseeing its implementation, or controlling the media narratives around those policies, or directing the power of the state, or experiencing any kind of real, tangible material benefit from the administration at all - even if they are somewhat comforted by the idea that the govt is sticking it to people they've been systematically conditioned to despise (even when they've made that a primary feature of their own identity).

tl;dr? MAGA are not the people other US citizens (or the rest of the world) should be worrying about.

[pErvinalia]

MAGA are cheering all that along. And while the US remains a democracy it's that base that are electing their representatives. If that bloc shifted their vote, the likes of Trump wouldn't ascend to power. The question is, does MAGA die with Trump? Or do these deplorables just move onto to a new emporer?

[Svartalf]

Yeah the base is a worry, going by some of the things they've said. Some of these people are just nasty humans. Maybe there'll always be a need for a President to represent these people. More Trumps to come in your future...?

MAGA is a minority outlook. Various pollings estimate about a third of Republican voters or about 15% of national voters would identify as MAGAs. Milage varies of course, depending on who's doing the asking.

Generally I think the existence and influence of MAGA is over emphasised when trying to explain US politics. Though the power of Trump's MAGA base definitely impacts the politics of the GOP, the underlying ideology of Trumpism (beyond Trump seeing Trumpism as being all about Trump!) isn't determined by the MAGA base, nor does it necessarily articulate or represent their interests and concerns.

They're not a mass movement steering the country towards some form of self-righteous, self-justifying authoritarianism. The people seemingly hell-bent on setting the US on that kind of course are of a completely different class, with different interests, values, expectations and life experiences. It might be a cult of personality with Trump as its figurehead but MAGA is not appointing Supreme Court judges, or defunding academia, or ignoring international laws and treaties, or rolling back civil rights and environmental protections, or crippling civil capacity or impairing community resilience, or putting troops on the streets, or imposing economically deleterious tariffs, or rounding up, detaining and deporting US citizens, valid visa holders or the undocumented (which is a civil offence in the US not a criminal one). MAGA didn't write the Project 2025 blueprint, or fund the election campaign. MAGA are not determining policy or overseeing its implementation, or controlling the media narratives around those policies, or directing the power of the state, or experiencing any kind of real, tangible material benefit from the administration at all - even if they are somewhat comforted by the idea that the govt is sticking it to people they've been systematically conditioned to despise (even when they've made that a primary feature of their own identity).

tl;dr? MAGA are not the people other US citizens (or the rest of the world) should be worrying about.

maga may be a minority, but they are an effing noisy one, and while a minority admits to be part of them, there's a lot of people who'll support them, just won't admit to it.

[Brian Peacock]

MAGA are cheering all that along. And while the US remains a democracy it's that base that are electing their representatives. If that bloc shifted their vote, the likes of Trump wouldn't ascend to power. The question is, does MAGA die with Trump? Or do these deplorables just move onto to a new emporer?

But the base can only cast a vote from the candidates on the ballot, and the people and organisations determining that have little in common with them, or us. I think it's too easy to blame c.15% of the voting public for the parlous state of US (or Western) political institutions or the perilous state of our democracies. In fact, to do so is to play into the hands of far-right ideologues - i.e. we end up blaming it all on them; on people in our communities who we somehow believe aren't like us.

[pErvinalia]

They are cunts, though.

[Tero]

I was working on a Kari story about Trump invading Greenland to save the whales. And I got one pargraph, and it was not funny.

Nothing is really funny anymore.

[Svartalf]

well, it's not even believable, the only creature frump ever wants to save is the fatcats.