Untold History of the United States

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

carefully preparing for resurgence of full-fleged Marxism and a march towards the ultimate goal of global, universal Communism.

Only Marxist useful idiots can't see socialism in every iteration for what it actually is: Marxism lying in wait like a croc under the surface, with only it's eyeballs protruding to be seen, but waiting patiently to lunge out of the water and devour the world.

Does the phrase "paranoid fantasy" ring any bells?

sandinista wrote:

Your whole first paragraph is a delusion. Marxism is alive and well, and will be for a long time to come. What is in it's death throes is neo-liberalism.

Show me convincing examples of truly marxist societies operating today (and not just populist wannabes, like Venezuela under Chavez). Marxism is only alive in an academic sense, with a tiny minority of fantasists thinking that it can ever be implemented, after its catastrophic early failures.

Liberal, democratic societies may well be headed for destruction, but for environmental reasons if they are, not because of any form of proletarian uprising (carefully managed by the Party machine, of course... )

When my political ideas are attacked with equal fervour by Seth and sandinista, I know I'm definitely on the correct track...

[sandinista]

Show me convincing examples of truly marxist societies operating today (and not just populist wannabes, like Venezuela under Chavez).

well, for one, obviously Chavez is not a wannabe anything, except for wanting to get healthy again. Secondly, because, what I'm guessing you would call Marxist societies, have not flourished as of yet is primarily because of two causes. One, capitalist societies have set out to destroy them and have been in a large part successful, and secondly because true communism cannot exist till global capitalism has collapsed, which, of course is inevitable.

When my political ideas are attacked with equal fervour by Seth and sandinista, I know I'm definitely on the correct track...

funny, I feel that when my political ideas are attacked with equal fervor by seth and jimc I know I am on the right track. hmmm, interesting isnt it.

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

carefully preparing for resurgence of full-fleged Marxism and a march towards the ultimate goal of global, universal Communism.

Only Marxist useful idiots can't see socialism in every iteration for what it actually is: Marxism lying in wait like a croc under the surface, with only it's eyeballs protruding to be seen, but waiting patiently to lunge out of the water and devour the world.

Does the phrase "paranoid fantasy" ring any bells?

You're only paranoid if the Marxists aren't out to get you. I have ample proof that they are indeed out to get me, and everyone else, so no, it's neither paranoid nor a fantasy. It's a very real, clear and present danger to the Republic.

[Seth]

Show me convincing examples of truly marxist societies operating today (and not just populist wannabes, like Venezuela under Chavez).

well, for one, obviously Chavez is not a wannabe anything, except for wanting to get healthy again.

Quite right, he's the real deal, a dyed-in-the-wool hard-core Marxist and I hope he dies screaming in agony and pissing his pants in fear of the endless darkness. He's as evil a cocksucker as any that exists on this planet.

[sandinista]

communism is a historical inevitability. No amount of forum posts is going to stop it, sorry to be the one to break the news.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[JimC]

Show me convincing examples of truly marxist societies operating today (and not just populist wannabes, like Venezuela under Chavez).

well, for one, obviously Chavez is not a wannabe anything, except for wanting to get healthy again.

Quite right, he's the real deal, a dyed-in-the-wool hard-core Marxist and I hope he dies screaming in agony and pissing his pants in fear of the endless darkness. He's as evil a cocksucker as any that exists on this planet.

Well, he's certainly closer to being a marxist that the various liberals and social democrats you usually give that label to...

However, any political commissar from the good old days would see him for what he really is - a populist demagogue who will use any rhetoric he can to maintain power (given he survives his current health issues)

What bugs many from the states is that his populist rhetoric includes, quite astutely, whipping up anti US sentiment in the mob. And the tendency of the US to (at times) act as an international bully gives him street cred...

communism is a historical inevitability. No amount of forum posts is going to stop it, sorry to be the one to break the news.

The fallacy of historical determinism rears its head once more.

[sandinista]

Well, he's certainly closer to being a marxist that the various liberals and social democrats you usually give that label to...

oh my..."liberals" the shadiest of all on the political spectrum.

The fallacy of historical determinism rears its head once more.

Yah...says jimc Thats got a lot of clout. haha

[JimC]

Show me convincing examples of truly marxist societies operating today (and not just populist wannabes, like Venezuela under Chavez).

well, for one, obviously Chavez is not a wannabe anything, except for wanting to get healthy again. Secondly, because, what I'm guessing you would call Marxist societies, have not flourished as of yet is primarily because of two causes. One, capitalist societies have set out to destroy them and have been in a large part successful, and secondly because true communism cannot exist till global capitalism has collapsed, which, of course is inevitable.

So, the communist movements were guilty of mis-timing? They made their run too early, before the "inevitable collapse of global capitalism". And it was all the fault of the nasty capitalists, destroying the sweet young innocent (although somewhat blood-drenched) communist republics?

I guess you may have a point with Allende's Chile. But how to you figure that the Soviet Union and the Warsaw pact abandoned communism? Invaded by the subtle evil of Coca Cola?

They collapsed under the weight of their own internal contradictions and inefficiencies. They had no internal defences against their rulers becoming dictatorial - hell, there were and are absolute bastards in power in various democracies, but at least there's always a chance of throwing them out on their ear, and trying some other bastard...

As for "inevitable collapse of global capitalism", marxists tend to take that on faith, based on the prophecies of an ancient, bearded prophet...

Oh, wait, I've heard that somewhere before.

Second coming, anyone?

[Ian]

The fallacy of historical determinism rears its head once more.

Yah...says jimc Thats got a lot of clout. haha

If the point you're trying to make against someone can equally be made against you, it's not a good point.

[sandinista]

The fallacy of historical determinism rears its head once more.

Yah...says jimc Thats got a lot of clout. haha

If the point you're trying to make against someone can equally be made against you, it's not a good point.

...and how many times have I had to say that in this forum? Is it finally getting through?

[sandinista]

I guess you may have a point with Allende's Chile.

...and Vietnam, El Salvador, Greece, Guatemala , Nicaragua...etc etc...

[JimC]

I guess you may have a point with Allende's Chile.

...and Vietnam, El Salvador, Greece, Guatemala , Nicaragua...etc etc...

Sure, there is a case to answer to some (but not all) of the military interventions by the US - they deserve criticism in many cases. But the critique does not have to be a marxist one...

And the main European examples of marxist societies, including the USSR, failed without any military intervention by the west...

And the Chinese communist party has made it's own transformation into something Lenin would not see as marxist, I suspect...

EDIT - Australia as a "targeted state"? Somewhat overly supine ally at times, sure, but not "targeted" in any serious sense of the word...

[pErvinalia]

Seth wrote:

carefully preparing for resurgence of full-fleged Marxism and a march towards the ultimate goal of global, universal Communism.

Only Marxist useful idiots can't see socialism in every iteration for what it actually is: Marxism lying in wait like a croc under the surface, with only it's eyeballs protruding to be seen, but waiting patiently to lunge out of the water and devour the world.

Does the phrase "paranoid fantasy" ring any bells?

You're only paranoid if the Marxists aren't out to get you. I have ample proof that they are indeed out to get me, and everyone else, so no, it's neither paranoid nor a fantasy. It's a very real, clear and present danger to the Republic.

I AM out to get you. I AM Stalin.

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

carefully preparing for resurgence of full-fleged Marxism and a march towards the ultimate goal of global, universal Communism.

Only Marxist useful idiots can't see socialism in every iteration for what it actually is: Marxism lying in wait like a croc under the surface, with only it's eyeballs protruding to be seen, but waiting patiently to lunge out of the water and devour the world.

Does the phrase "paranoid fantasy" ring any bells?

You're only paranoid if the Marxists aren't out to get you. I have ample proof that they are indeed out to get me, and everyone else, so no, it's neither paranoid nor a fantasy. It's a very real, clear and present danger to the Republic.

I AM out to get you. I AM Stalin.

Shit, I was absolutely fucking sure you were Trotsky...