Here comes the other economic shoe dropping...

[Coito ergo sum]

Obama has added more to the national debt than Washington through and including Reagan, combined. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/72404 In two more years, he'll have both Bush's beat too.

[Coito ergo sum]

Economic apocalypse coming? http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

[Warren Dew]

Industrial output rose by 0.2% in August, down from 0.7% in July, revised from the 1.1% in July initially reported.

So is that a good sign because it's a rise, or a bad sign because the rise was smaller than last month?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TWhatsNews

[PsychoSerenity]

Industrial output rose by 0.2% in August, down from 0.7% in July, revised from the 1.1% in July initially reported.

So is that a good sign because it's a rise, or a bad sign because the rise was smaller than last month?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TWhatsNews

I don't think industrial output has much to do with the economy any more. It should do, because it's our ability to create technology that actually matters, not our ability to create money. - But industry has been continually increasing over the last century at the same time as employment in it has been falling. If most people are becoming unemployed because machines, robots and computers are now doing the majority of the important work for us, why do we even need an economy any more?

Time to enter the 31st century.

[Rum]

[Coito ergo sum]

Reaganomics is causing the current economic crisis...30 years later? I suppose Trumanomics caused the economic recession under Carter.....

[Warren Dew]

Reaganomics is causing the current economic crisis...30 years later? I suppose Trumanomics caused the economic recession under Carter.....

That darned Truman!

[Robert_S]

Industrial output rose by 0.2% in August, down from 0.7% in July, revised from the 1.1% in July initially reported.

So is that a good sign because it's a rise, or a bad sign because the rise was smaller than last month?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TWhatsNews

I don't think industrial output has much to do with the economy any more. It should do, because it's our ability to create technology that actually matters, not our ability to create money. - But industry has been continually increasing over the last century at the same time as employment in it has been falling. If most people are becoming unemployed because machines, robots and computers are now doing the majority of the important work for us, why do we even need an economy any more?

Time to enter the 31st century.

It's still about providing a reason for all those workers to show up at their jobs when they feel like sleeping in. We have lost some jobs to robots but we have also lost them to other nations. What I keep arguing is that we need a larger international pool of consumers for whatever it is the US is going to export when it gets it's shit together.

[Coito ergo sum]

Industrial output rose by 0.2% in August, down from 0.7% in July, revised from the 1.1% in July initially reported.

So is that a good sign because it's a rise, or a bad sign because the rise was smaller than last month?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TWhatsNews

I don't think industrial output has much to do with the economy any more. It should do, because it's our ability to create technology that actually matters, not our ability to create money. - But industry has been continually increasing over the last century at the same time as employment in it has been falling. If most people are becoming unemployed because machines, robots and computers are now doing the majority of the important work for us, why do we even need an economy any more?

Time to enter the 31st century.

It's still about providing a reason for all those workers to show up at their jobs when they feel like sleeping in. We have lost some jobs to robots but we have also lost them to other nations. What I keep arguing is that we need a larger international pool of consumers for whatever it is the US is going to export when it gets it's shit together.

Unless we make it attractive for people to build stuff here, and let people get their raw materials from here, we will not "manufacture" anything to export.

We'll have some regulation requiring that X% of a product be "made" here, which will wind up meaning that the nearly fully assembled thing will get to the US and then some folks will have to seal a ziplock or something in order to make it "certified domestic content." Or some such nonsense....

We need to have a space program, and we need to get the fuels and raw materials here. We need to design and build the components here. We need to have that industry available so that teenagers interested in science will be able to get jobs in the space program in 5 and 10 years.

It's not about "putting people to work", as we hear all the time on the news, or "saving jobs" that would otherwise become obsolete. It's about moving into the future and creating industry and development.

[Robert_S]

I'm also saying that is we buy X stuff from some other nation where the workers don't have enough money left over to buy stuff, then that's on market we'll never sell our stuff to. There are things we can do, such as male china let it's currency come up to fair market value, let central and south American nations spend money on education, infrastructure and whatever else it takes to lift more people out of poverty, tarriff the hell out of products made with super cheap labour... Generally expand the consumer market until w figure out an economic system that doesn't rely on growth.

A space program would be nice too. But at this point there has to be a definable bottom line benefit or it won't happen.

[Coito ergo sum]

A space program would be nice too. But at this point there has to be a definable bottom line benefit or it won't happen.

The bottom line benefit is the development of raw materials and basic industry, technological development, and the sustainment of all supporting businesses and industries required to complete a 30 year project, plus the exploration and mastery of near space, such that the West (North America and Europe) does not lose its dominant position in the world.

[Robert_S]

A space program would be nice too. But at this point there has to be a definable bottom line benefit or it won't happen.

The bottom line benefit is the development of raw materials and basic industry, technological development, and the sustainment of all supporting businesses and industries required to complete a 30 year project, plus the exploration and mastery of near space, such that the West (North America and Europe) does not lose its dominant position in the world.

I think it might pass the public scrutiny if you also added "ZOMG!!! The Iranians and Chinese are catching up to us!!!"

[Coito ergo sum]

A space program would be nice too. But at this point there has to be a definable bottom line benefit or it won't happen.

The bottom line benefit is the development of raw materials and basic industry, technological development, and the sustainment of all supporting businesses and industries required to complete a 30 year project, plus the exploration and mastery of near space, such that the West (North America and Europe) does not lose its dominant position in the world.

I think it might pass the public scrutiny if you also added "ZOMG!!! The Iranians and Chinese are catching up to us!!!"

Well, one generation is all it takes. We still have the time now to avail ourselves of those folks who did the Apollo and other missions. When they die, they die.

It is braindead, shortsighted, stupid, ignorant and foolish to not have a very expansive space program.

[Warren Dew]

The bottom line benefit is the development of raw materials and basic industry, technological development, and the sustainment of all supporting businesses and industries required to complete a 30 year project, plus the exploration and mastery of near space, such that the West (North America and Europe) does not lose its dominant position in the world.

I don't think a big government run project like Apollo is the right way to go. In many ways, Apollo was detrimental to the long term space program, since it displaced plans for a sustained presence in space, including space stations from which missions such as a moon mission could be launched. Yes, Apollo had some good spinoffs, but the plans that Apollo displaced would have too.

I think the better approach in this area is to provide an environment friendly towards space programs based on private enterprise. Having most satellite launch providers be private companies is a good start. In the longer run, private initiatives focused on eventual development of a space elevator are probably the best way to proceed - an example being LaserMotive, a company geared towards developing the beamed power technology needed to power such an elevator.

[drl2]

Reaganomics is causing the current economic crisis...30 years later? I suppose Trumanomics caused the economic recession under Carter.....

We're still living very much under the auspices of "trickle down" - the theory that if we give the wealthiest Americans more money they'll continue urinating all over the rest of us. Witness the current fight over the expiration of the Bush tax cuts.

The difference was that Reagan realized his tax cuts were ballooning the deficit, so he raised taxes 11 times to compensate... and this was back when the top tax rate was around 50%, rather than the 30-something it stands at today.

That damned America-hating liberal commie.