Afghanistan. It's fucked

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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Svartalf » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:08 am

Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:48 pm
JimC wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 pm
Isn't that synthetic these days?
No. There are no opiates (with all the rings) that do not come out of the three in the opium poppy. Oxycontin is made of one of them. I think codeine. Synthetics are things like tramadol.
IIRC, the ones from poppy are much more powerful than tramadol and the like.
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Svartalf » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:09 am

JimC wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:51 pm
Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:50 pm
rainbow wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:53 pm
Where are Big Pharma going to get the opium to make oxycodone?
France, Turkey, India and Tasmania. They produce all the opium needed for all the Western countries thru legal production.
In Tasmania, the haunting sound of banjos drifting over the poppy fields is said to boost production... :tea:
but what about the squealing of pigs?
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by rainbow » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:50 am

Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:48 pm
JimC wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 pm
Isn't that synthetic these days?
No. There are no opiates (with all the rings) that do not come out of the three in the opium poppy. Oxycontin is made of one of them. I think codeine. Synthetics are things like tramadol.
Thebaine can be converted into codiene, which in turn is made into codieneone.
I could do this in my kitchen if arsed.
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Tero » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:10 am

Svartalf wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:08 am
Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:48 pm
JimC wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 pm
Isn't that synthetic these days?
No. There are no opiates (with all the rings) that do not come out of the three in the opium poppy. Oxycontin is made of one of them. I think codeine. Synthetics are things like tramadol.
IIRC, the ones from poppy are much more powerful than tramadol and the like.
Not really. Fentanyl is synthetic and is much more potent and lethal. Tramadol would give you the opiate high, but it has an enantiomer that is not an opiate receptor binder. But it has other effects which give addicts the shakes at that dose.

Fentanyl binds well despite not having a phenol. Or the oxygen that both morphine and codeine have.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl# ... e-activity

The natural opiates have to have the oxygen at the top and the one nitrogen. In fact the nitrogen is the same in all, natural and syntetic, and binds at the same spot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine

The reason there are so many semisynthetic opioids is that the receptors all have multiple functions. I think the mu receptor was favored for pain, but still gives respiratory depression. For opiate addiction treatment a mixed agonist/antagonist is sought. The "epipen" devices for overdoses have antagonist alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_re ... r_subtypes
Last edited by Tero on Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Tero » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:13 am

rainbow wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:50 am
Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:48 pm
JimC wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 pm
Isn't that synthetic these days?
No. There are no opiates (with all the rings) that do not come out of the three in the opium poppy. Oxycontin is made of one of them. I think codeine. Synthetics are things like tramadol.
Thebaine can be converted into codiene, which in turn is made into codieneone.
I could do this in my kitchen if arsed.
Yeah, no. And your names are all wrong. Morphine and codeine are the main starting materials. Morphine makes codeine so there is no sense to make it from thebaine.

https://www.incb.org/documents/Publicat ... r_II_A.pdf

the synthetic opiates in the chart are all derived from naturals except maybe methadone.

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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Tero » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:42 am

Antagonists:
The "epipen" devices for overdoses have antagonist alone. Naloxone. It is made from morphine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone

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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:04 am

I bet the reducing number of service personnel at Kabul airport are getting very itchy to be out of there. I can't see how it can be managed without leave bodies on the ground. Even if the US negotiate a ceasefire with the Taliban at some point there's not going to be enough troops to defend the perimeter and there's thousands of people at the fence. ISIS will have no truck with a Taliban-US ceasefire. Are we going to see the USAF strafing civilians to get the last of the forces on the ground out? Are the US going to destroy/sabotage the kit they're going to have to leave behind, perhaps rendering the airport useless? There's already a massive humanitarian crisis in the country. It has no functional government at the moment. The banks are closed. Food supplies and distribution are in turmoil. Water is in short supply. It already relies on NGOs and overseas donations for medical supplies and healthcare. What's going to happen to that when the West is out of there?
BBC wrote:The Red Cross in Afghanistan: 'If we leave, who stays?'

As thousands of people head to borders and Kabul airport to flee Afghanistan, some on the ground say they have no choice but to stay.

Dr Alberto Cairo is head of the Kabul orthopaedic project, part of the International Committee of the Red Cross' operations in Kabul, and has worked in Afghanistan since 1990.

He said that he hopes people do not forget about Afghanistan and that the country needs support from the international community.

Dr Cairo's comments come after the UK confirmed it was in the final stages of its evacuation process...

(+video) https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/58344607
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by rainbow » Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:58 pm

Tero wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:13 am
rainbow wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:50 am
Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:48 pm
JimC wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 pm
Isn't that synthetic these days?
No. There are no opiates (with all the rings) that do not come out of the three in the opium poppy. Oxycontin is made of one of them. I think codeine. Synthetics are things like tramadol.
Thebaine can be converted into codiene, which in turn is made into codieneone.
I could do this in my kitchen if arsed.
Yeah, no. And your names are all wrong. Morphine and codeine are the main starting materials. Morphine makes codeine so there is no sense to make it from thebaine.

https://www.incb.org/documents/Publicat ... r_II_A.pdf

From your linky-poo:
Global manufacture of thebaine has increased
sharply since the late 1990s, as a consequence of the grow-
ing demand for oxycodone and other drugs and substances
that may be derived from it (see figure 2).
BTW: oxycodone = dihydrohydroxycodeinone
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:09 pm

That's a great Scrabble score.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:43 pm

Not much else. :hehe:
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by laklak » Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:55 pm

Woodbutcher wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:03 am
laklak wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:31 am
First strike nukes, that's the ticket. We know where the Paki bombs are, and if we shoot them from the right direction they'll think it's from India anyway.
I'd like to see that! Reduce the world population to about 500 million, the clouds would bring about global cooling, and fishing and hunting would improve. :ab:
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Svartalf » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:24 pm

Tero wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:10 am
Svartalf wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:08 am
Tero wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:48 pm
JimC wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 pm
Isn't that synthetic these days?
No. There are no opiates (with all the rings) that do not come out of the three in the opium poppy. Oxycontin is made of one of them. I think codeine. Synthetics are things like tramadol.
IIRC, the ones from poppy are much more powerful than tramadol and the like.
Not really. Fentanyl is synthetic and is much more potent and lethal. Tramadol would give you the opiate high, but it has an enantiomer that is not an opiate receptor binder. But it has other effects which give addicts the shakes at that dose.

Fentanyl binds well despite not having a phenol. Or the oxygen that both morphine and codeine have.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl# ... e-activity

The natural opiates have to have the oxygen at the top and the one nitrogen. In fact the nitrogen is the same in all, natural and syntetic, and binds at the same spot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine

The reason there are so many semisynthetic opioids is that the receptors all have multiple functions. I think the mu receptor was favored for pain, but still gives respiratory depression. For opiate addiction treatment a mixed agonist/antagonist is sought. The "epipen" devices for overdoses have antagonist alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_re ... r_subtypes
Tramadol? I don't know, but when I broke my wrist, it hurt so bad I popped them like candy, and I never got a high, or for that matter any cold turkey effects when I stopped it once it stopped hurting.
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Svartalf » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:26 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:04 am
I bet the reducing number of service personnel at Kabul airport are getting very itchy to be out of there. I can't see how it can be managed without leave bodies on the ground. Even if the US negotiate a ceasefire with the Taliban at some point there's not going to be enough troops to defend the perimeter and there's thousands of people at the fence. ISIS will have no truck with a Taliban-US ceasefire. Are we going to see the USAF strafing civilians to get the last of the forces on the ground out? Are the US going to destroy/sabotage the kit they're going to have to leave behind, perhaps rendering the airport useless? There's already a massive humanitarian crisis in the country. It has no functional government at the moment. The banks are closed. Food supplies and distribution are in turmoil. Water is in short supply. It already relies on NGOs and overseas donations for medical supplies and healthcare. What's going to happen to that when the West is out of there?
BBC wrote:The Red Cross in Afghanistan: 'If we leave, who stays?'

As thousands of people head to borders and Kabul airport to flee Afghanistan, some on the ground say they have no choice but to stay.

Dr Alberto Cairo is head of the Kabul orthopaedic project, part of the International Committee of the Red Cross' operations in Kabul, and has worked in Afghanistan since 1990.

He said that he hopes people do not forget about Afghanistan and that the country needs support from the international community.

Dr Cairo's comments come after the UK confirmed it was in the final stages of its evacuation process...

(+video) https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/58344607
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Seabass » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:57 pm

rainbow wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:58 pm
dihydrohydroxycodeinone
Gesundheit!
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Re: Afghanistan. It's fucked

Post by Tero » Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:05 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:24 pm

Tramadol? I don't know, but when I broke my wrist, it hurt so bad I popped them like candy, and I never got a high, or for that matter any cold turkey effects when I stopped it once it stopped hurting.
It's only the single high dose that gave the other effects.


Tramadol has been found to possess these actions:...some of them from opiate receptor inactive isomer.

Agonist of the μ-opioid receptor (MOR) and to a far lesser extent of the δ-opioid receptor (DOR) and κ-opioid receptor (KOR)
Serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SRI) and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor; hence, an SNRI
Serotonin 5-HT2C receptor antagonist
M1 and M3 muscarinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist
α7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist

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