pErvin wrote:Forty Two wrote:Not sure what your problem is, Hermit, but the only argument I've made is that the idea of checking to see if there are sex offenders or wanted felons in the midst of vulnerable people sheltering from a disaster has some reason to it, and is not inhuman or uncivilized.
I've asked what Oz would do differently, and it doesn't seem as if there is much different that they would do.
How do you get that idea?
I've said that it would be considered abhorrent IMO to do ID checks before gaining entry to a shelter in a potentially life threatening situation. Hermit posted about the situation after Cyclone Tracey, and surely couldn't have left you of the impression that ID checks were preformed.
I explained further in my post. Additionally, when people go to shelters, it's in advance of the disaster. So, Grady Judd was suggesting that they would perform checks at the shelter, and people were going to those shelters on Friday and Saturday. If you're not there well in advance of the hurricane arriving, you're not going to be able to get in. They fill up. Space is not unlimited, and when the hurricane arrives, travel is impossible.
So, it's not some sort of ongoing disaster at the time that people are being organized in the shelter. It's in advance, and it's calm and there is plenty of time to deal with these kinds of issues.
Once again, the question is skirted - I don't care what you think people would think is "abhorrent." I asked what Oz would do differently. Would they simply let anyone in and mix with the general population? No effort would be made to weed out sex offenders and wanted felons?
pErvin wrote:
There was some mention of how abhorrent it would be to Australians that anyone would make those sort of checks when people are sheltering from a hurricane. However, I'm not sure why that would be so abhorrent. People flee the hurricane ahead of the actual disaster - if you're not in a shelter before the hurricane starts effecting the area, then you're not going to get there. So, this is not a panic situation where people are fleeing a disaster in progress. This is a calm, orderly process of entering a shelter well in advance of the hurricane arriving.
Cyclones/Hurricanes can radically change tack very quickly. It often can be a very hurried operation to shelter and/or evacuate people.
It wasn't in Polk County, which is about 200 miles as the crow flies from Miami. Polk County can't be surprised by a hurricane, even if it landed in Tampa or Daytona. So, in Polk Count a hurricane is always known about days in advance.
There is no rushing to shelters to flee the hurricane as it makes landfall. Either you're on your way to the shelter in advance, or you have to hunker down where you are. And, the issue was not that people would be turned away - it's that they would be handled differently. People on the sex offender list, for example, were placed in a separate location. That's not inhumane.
pErvin wrote:
I'm not the one who goes around here calling other countries/peoples "uncivilized" and "inhuman" on issues like this.
And there it is, the real reason why you are digging your heals in...
That's the only issue I've been addressing this whole time regarding this exchange. It's tiresome when people like you and Dutchy endlessly go down this route. You claim to "criticize" when really you're just namecalling. I don't call Oz "uncivilized" for it's handling of cyclones, which has been overall bad. There is probably a lot Oz and other countries can do better in terms of building better structures and having better procedures for handling them and protecting populations.
The same is, of course, true of the US. Much improvement has been made over the last 25+years in the US. Building standards have been improved so that houses can withstand a lot of wind. Insurance requirements for people in flood-risk areas have been tightened. Emergency response resources have been improved, and coordination/planning is much improved. However, even now, the learning process continues, and we will hopefully do better next time. And, that includes how to handle protecting people from sex offenders and violent felons while sheltering and such. Could there be a better way than what Grady Judd opted for in his county? Sure. I'm open to that. But, calling the guy "uncivilized" and "inhumane" and suggesting that organizing people and checking for sex offender registries and felony warrants in a place where people will be sleeping in a big room together on floors with kids everywhere is "abhorrent" doesn't strike me as a productive or constructive argument. It strikes me as the typical bullshit from you and certain others looking to score points and namecall.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
