Obama called to Georgia court to defend primary eligiblity

[Tyrannical]

I'd like for Obama to admit what citizenship's he holds besides US. Does he still hold UK citizenship, or just Kenyan. What about Indonesian citizenship when he was adopted?

[Hermit]

I'd like for Obama to admit what citizenship's he holds besides US. Does he still hold UK citizenship, or just Kenyan. What about Indonesian citizenship when he was adopted?

Assuming that the UK, Kenya and Indonesia have a register containing the identity of everyone who is a citizen of their respective nation, and that this register is accessible to the public, you should have no problem finding out for yourself. The advantage of doing that is that it won't matter if Obama admits to holding more than one citizenship, or not.

[Coito ergo sum]

Seth posts up another court challenge promoted by Orly Taintz and it fails. Shocker. And it takes all of 5 minutes to debunk Seth's assertion that "natural born citizen" requires that a person be born of two American parents.

http://www.legistorm.com/score_crs/show/id/82388.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-bo ... nstitution

Neither of your references constitutes an opinion of any court, and your reference to wikipedia is laughable as a legal source.

The controversy remains valid and eventually the Supreme Court is going to need to rule on it.

Doubtful. District courts will dismiss the cases, Federal Circuit Courts of Appeal will uphold the dismissals, and the SCOTUS will deny certiorari. They don't have to rule on it, and most likely never will.

[Seth]

Seth posts up another court challenge promoted by Orly Taintz and it fails. Shocker. And it takes all of 5 minutes to debunk Seth's assertion that "natural born citizen" requires that a person be born of two American parents.

http://www.legistorm.com/score_crs/show/id/82388.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-bo ... nstitution

Neither of your references constitutes an opinion of any court, and your reference to wikipedia is laughable as a legal source.

The controversy remains valid and eventually the Supreme Court is going to need to rule on it.

Doubtful. District courts will dismiss the cases, Federal Circuit Courts of Appeal will uphold the dismissals, and the SCOTUS will deny certiorari. They don't have to rule on it, and most likely never will.

Your certainty may be misplaced. We'll see.

[Seth]

At any rate, Mitt Romney's dad wasn't a US citizen, and I haven't seen his Birth Cert, so I guess he's ineligible anyway and has no business running in the first place

I would agree, if his grandfather's US citizenship was, in fact, stripped from him because he was a Mormon or because he fled to Mexico.

Sauce, goose, gander.

See why this is a legitimate constitutional question of law?

[Tyrannical]

I'd like for Obama to admit what citizenship's he holds besides US. Does he still hold UK citizenship, or just Kenyan. What about Indonesian citizenship when he was adopted?

Assuming that the UK, Kenya and Indonesia have a register containing the identity of everyone who is a citizen of their respective nation, and that this register is accessible to the public, you should have no problem finding out for yourself. The advantage of doing that is that it won't matter if Obama admits to holding more than one citizenship, or not.

I doubt such a register exists.

[Seth]

I'd like for Obama to admit what citizenship's he holds besides US. Does he still hold UK citizenship, or just Kenyan. What about Indonesian citizenship when he was adopted?

Assuming that the UK, Kenya and Indonesia have a register containing the identity of everyone who is a citizen of their respective nation, and that this register is accessible to the public, you should have no problem finding out for yourself. The advantage of doing that is that it won't matter if Obama admits to holding more than one citizenship, or not.

I doubt such a register exists.

We know that Barry Sotero (AKA Barack Obama) was admitted to public school in Indonesia when his mother expatriated, and in Indonesia one cannot attend public school unless one is an Indonesian citizen, which raises the question of whether or not Barry's citizenship was renounced by that act. Another question is whether his mother formally renounced her own citizenship prior to Obama's birth.

Current immigration law is complex, but one provision says that a parent cannot renounce a child-citizen's citizenship without that child's affirmative agreement. That was not the case at the time, or so I understand.

There are also allegations that Barack was born in Kenya and that the birth registration in Hawaii was a "late registration," which is permitted under Hawaii law. The allegation is that he was born in Kenya and was brought to Hawaii within days or weeks of his birth and that his mother lied about where he was actually born.

That's one of the reasons that the Birthers want to see the original of the hospital birth record, not the computer-generated certificate. Presumably, according to them, this may show evidence of a late-birth registration, which would add to the questions about his citizenship.

Obama could settle all these questions by authorizing the release of his original hospital record of birth for examination.

But he won't, which adds to the suspicion and division. One must naturally ask why he is refusing if things are as he claims.

[Coito ergo sum]

Seth posts up another court challenge promoted by Orly Taintz and it fails. Shocker. And it takes all of 5 minutes to debunk Seth's assertion that "natural born citizen" requires that a person be born of two American parents.

http://www.legistorm.com/score_crs/show/id/82388.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-bo ... nstitution

Neither of your references constitutes an opinion of any court, and your reference to wikipedia is laughable as a legal source.

The controversy remains valid and eventually the Supreme Court is going to need to rule on it.

Doubtful. District courts will dismiss the cases, Federal Circuit Courts of Appeal will uphold the dismissals, and the SCOTUS will deny certiorari. They don't have to rule on it, and most likely never will.

Your certainty may be misplaced. We'll see.

The same can be said of every frivolous case. We'll see.

[Coito ergo sum]

I'd like for Obama to admit what citizenship's he holds besides US. Does he still hold UK citizenship, or just Kenyan. What about Indonesian citizenship when he was adopted?

Assuming that the UK, Kenya and Indonesia have a register containing the identity of everyone who is a citizen of their respective nation, and that this register is accessible to the public, you should have no problem finding out for yourself. The advantage of doing that is that it won't matter if Obama admits to holding more than one citizenship, or not.

I doubt such a register exists.

We know that Barry Sotero (AKA Barack Obama) was admitted to public school in Indonesia when his mother expatriated, and in Indonesia one cannot attend public school unless one is an Indonesian citizen,

I haven't seen that established. I would highly doubt that you have to be an indonesian citizen to attend public school in indonesia. Americans working in Indonesia with children there can probably send their kids to public school. Any links or citations to the law at the time Obama lived there?

which raises the question of whether or not Barry's citizenship was renounced by that act. Another question is whether his mother formally renounced her own citizenship prior to Obama's birth.

By the act of going to school in Indonesia? Is there evidence that Obama's US citizenship was renounced?

Current immigration law is complex, but one provision says that a parent cannot renounce a child-citizen's citizenship without that child's affirmative agreement. That was not the case at the time, or so I understand.

What is the statute citation for the "parent cannot renounce a child's citizenship without the child' affirmative agreement?"

There are also allegations that Barack was born in Kenya and that the birth registration in Hawaii was a "late registration," which is permitted under Hawaii law. The allegation is that he was born in Kenya and was brought to Hawaii within days or weeks of his birth and that his mother lied about where he was actually born.

Allegations are like assholes...

Is there any evidence that this allegation is true? Any evidence besides the allegation?

That's one of the reasons that the Birthers want to see the original of the hospital birth record, not the computer-generated certificate. Presumably, according to them, this may show evidence of a late-birth registration, which would add to the questions about his citizenship.

Who holds the original birth record? I know that I have an original hospital birth record from my own birth -- well, I had it up until about 15 years ago. I lost it.

Obama could settle all these questions by authorizing the release of his original hospital record of birth for examination.

But he won't, which adds to the suspicion and division. One must naturally ask why he is refusing if things are as he claims.

Why? So as not to lend any credence to bullshit assertions. I don't blame him. "Fuck you." That would be my answer, too, at this point.

[Tyrannical]

Obama's mother remarried and his Indonesian step father adopted him. His school records list him as born in Hawaii and an Indonesian citizen. Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. So the question is, can Obama's step-father renounce Obama's US citizenship
Indonesian law apparently says "Yes" if Obama really held Indonesian citizenship. But US law may say "No".

Which actually makes it a relevant court case

[Ian]

Won't somebody pleeeease take my bet?
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 5#p1103682

You know you want to. C'mon, let's make a friendly wager...

[Coito ergo sum]

Obama's mother remarried and his Indonesian step father adopted him. His school records list him as born in Hawaii and an Indonesian citizen. Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. So the question is, can Obama's step-father renounce Obama's US citizenship
Indonesian law apparently says "Yes" if Obama really held Indonesian citizenship. But US law may say "No".

Which actually makes it a relevant court case

Link tot he school records?

I've heard the allegation made. If there is a "record" listing him as an Indonesian citizen, I haven't seen it. If you could direct me to a source for it, that would be great.

Since that is a necessary premise in your argument, I will proceed no further until I see the evidence that he is listed in official records as an Indonesian citizen.

[Tyrannical]

Google (obama indonesian school records) and you'll get numerous hits showing both the records and commentary on them. You could have found them quicker than typing the sentence asking for them you know.

[Coito ergo sum]

Not really relevant. The term "citizen of the US at birth" and "natural born citizen" are not synonymous. And Congress cannot "create clarifying legislation" regarding the provisions of Article II, Section 1. The only thing that counts there is the original intent of the Founders when they drafted the provision.

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power...

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

"To make all Laws" seems pretty inclusive to me.

But it's not. It's to make all necessary and proper laws for carrying into execution the powers, and only the powers that are authorized by Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, not any law that Congress decides to make.

Those powers are (and are limited to):

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Nowhere in that list, or any other "powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States," is the Congress authorized to alter or amend the provisions of Article II, Section 1 regarding the qualifications for President. That would require a constitutional amendment ratified by the states that specifically addresses those qualifications.

That is true, but there is nothing that prevents them from making laws clarifying what terms in the Constitution mean. Any such law would be reviewable by the SCOTUS, of course, in case the Congress was giving it an unconstitutional meaning. If, however, the SCOTUS found that Congress gave it a Constitutional meaning, then that would be, of course, Constitutional.

Incidentally, your reading of the Constitution is selective and overly narrow. For example, you hypocritically grant the US government (on other threads) the power to make immigration laws (other than uniform rules of naturalization). However, you just made a perfect argument as to why every US immigration law, visa category and the federal government's efforts to build a fence or wall along the border, are all unconstitutional.

You said that ONLY those powers in Article 1 section 8, and otherwise in the Constitution, are federal powers, and the Congress can ONLY make laws necessary and proper to carrying out those powers. If that's your argument, then you must be in favor of federal immigration authority being limited to laws necessary and proper to carrying out uniform rules of naturalization.

[Coito ergo sum]

Google (obama indonesian school records) and you'll get numerous hits showing both the records and commentary on them. You could have found them quicker than typing the sentence asking for them you know.

If you'd be so kind as providing a link you find persuasive, I would be most appreciative.