Across the US, Mosque Projects Meet Opposition

[Coito ergo sum]

With Islam what do you think that standard will be?

Tolerance for Islam. Intolerance of everyone else, including non-believers.

[sandinista]

Same as the christians did and continue to do. Churches built on top of pagan temples, on other persons sacred land etc. There are small towns around here with more churches than any other large buildings, one every two blocks or so. No more churches, no more mosques.

SAndi,

Don't you think the christians have enough influence already all over the place without adding islam to the mix? Are we not hoping to get christianity OUT of schools, and the governement/courts etc...? and now you want to let freedom ring with Islam as well?

Compared to the "Muslim world" religion is, in fact, out of the schools and governments/courts, etc. The kind of thing we're fighting about here in the States is "can they say a prayer at legislative and city council meetings?" Can they use the words "under god" in oaths? Can they put up this cross or that religious symbol, etc. In parts of the Muslim world, they still need to overcome taxes on non-Muslim religions, Christians being run out of Lebanon, Jews not being able to build Temples anywhere in Saudi Arabia, non-Muslims being completely barred from even setting foot in certain places in the "Muslim World," women being publicly beaten for showing an ankle, women being forced to wear certain garments, women being deprived educations, women having their vaginas mutilated, gays being hanged and otherwise executed......and the list goes on and on....

Whats your point? Do you want a list of all the bad things christians have done and continue to do? A good start would be Michel Onfray's book "In Defense of Atheism" because I can't be bothered to type all that shit out...perhaps the best recent book on the subject of atheism and the scourge of christianity and islam.

[Coito ergo sum]

Be tolerant of this: A Saudi couple tortured their Sri Lankan maid after she complained of a too heavy workload by hammering 24 nails into her hands, legs and forehead, officials said on Thursday. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67P17420100826

It's just another culture....not all Muslims bang nails into their Sri Lankan maids.... the vast majority of Muslims are good, kind and caring individuals, who only want to live their lives in peace....Islam is a religion of peace and goodness....it's one of the Great Religions, after all....

[Coito ergo sum]

Same as the christians did and continue to do. Churches built on top of pagan temples, on other persons sacred land etc. There are small towns around here with more churches than any other large buildings, one every two blocks or so. No more churches, no more mosques.

SAndi,

Don't you think the christians have enough influence already all over the place without adding islam to the mix? Are we not hoping to get christianity OUT of schools, and the governement/courts etc...? and now you want to let freedom ring with Islam as well?

Compared to the "Muslim world" religion is, in fact, out of the schools and governments/courts, etc. The kind of thing we're fighting about here in the States is "can they say a prayer at legislative and city council meetings?" Can they use the words "under god" in oaths? Can they put up this cross or that religious symbol, etc. In parts of the Muslim world, they still need to overcome taxes on non-Muslim religions, Christians being run out of Lebanon, Jews not being able to build Temples anywhere in Saudi Arabia, non-Muslims being completely barred from even setting foot in certain places in the "Muslim World," women being publicly beaten for showing an ankle, women being forced to wear certain garments, women being deprived educations, women having their vaginas mutilated, gays being hanged and otherwise executed......and the list goes on and on....

Whats your point? Do you want a list of all the bad things christians have done and continue to do? A good start would be Michel Onfray's book "In Defense of Atheism" because I can't be bothered to type all that shit out...perhaps the best recent book on the subject of atheism and the scourge of christianity and islam.

List the ones they continue to do.

I hate Christianity too. But, in today's world, Islam is a far worse sess pit of disgusting ideas, and Christianity did undergo an Englightenment and Reformation, by and large. 80% of terrorist incidents over the last 25 years have been by Muslims, because of Islam, not by Christians because of Christianity. Muslims are the ones who want to commit genocide in Israel, not Christians (by and large). Muslims are the ones who couldn't stand to have a Christian country called Lebanon in the area, so they pushed the Christians out. Muslims are the ones who demand their countries be "Muslim nations" and that Islam dominate and reign supreme.

That's my point. Here in the US, we are outraged when a city council says a prayer before their meetings. That, thankfully, is all we're fighting about here. Freedom loving people in disgusting "Muslim countries" have to put up with far, far worse. And, that's the shit that Imam Rauf is selling to us here in the US, him and his skanky slut partner Daisy Khan - both of them are lying pieces of racist shit who deserve only the amount of respect we'd give to a Nazi.

[kiki5711]

Can you tell me for sure that this is not what Islam is going to demand here once it gets a good foot hold?
_______________________________________________________________

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia – A conservative Saudi cleric was told to stop giving unauthorized edicts after he called for a boycott of a supermarket chain that employs women as cashiers, the office of the kingdom's most senior religious leader said Thursday.

The move is the first public reprimand of a prominent cleric following a royal decree that limits the issuance of fatwas to the country's most senior group of clerics. Fatwas are religious edicts that provide guidance in matters of everyday life to pious Muslims.

Sheik Youssef al-Ahmed had urged people not to shop at Panda Supermarket because women there work in jobs that allow for the mingling of the sexes, which the cleric said was a violation of Islamic law.

Saudi media reported that al-Ahmed's fatwa forced the supermarket management to reassign 11 of its women employees to other positions on Wednesday. The chain could not be reached for comment.

Grand Mufti Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheik's office said Thursday he had summoned al-Ahmed and ordered the cleric to refrain from issuing unauthorized fatwas.

The office said it "received a pledge from al-Ahmed not to issue any fatwas" without approval.

Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam and religious leaders have strong influence over policy making and social mores. Sexes are segregated in schools and public places. Women are not allowed to drive or vote, and physical education classes are banned in state-run girls' schools.

Saudi King Abdullah has been trying to clamp down on ultraconservative ideology, including allowing women to take up commercial jobs.

Earlier in August, Abdullah decreed that only the powerful government-sanctioned Council of Senior Islamic Scholars could issue fatwas. And last year, the king dismissed a hard-line cleric who criticized a newly inaugurated university for allowing men and women to take classes together.

But reining in the fatwas — or any learned scholar from providing them — may prove difficult as they are a way of life for observant Muslims who freely seek guidance from their local clerics.

In a call-in TV show on satellite channel al-Usra, which is Arabic for The Family, al-Ahmed defended his edict.

The fatwa has fueled campaigns on the Internet and through social networking groups. A group on Facebook had nearly 1,500 members supporting al-Ahmed.

Al-Ahmad said having women work as cashiers was a step "toward adopting a Westernized project."

"This is a project of the hypocrites that must be stopped, it's a violation of the country's laws," he said in the show.

In another example of the clash between fatwas and state policy, a senior cleric recently said women should not participate in international or local equestrian competitions because it violates rules of modesty and causes them to "mingle with men."

The edict went against the kingdom's decision to send young female competitor Dalma Malhas to the Youth Olympics in Singapore.

Malhas, 18, won a bronze metal on Tuesday in the first ever Saudi female participation in international sports events, according to the English language Arab News daily.

But Sheik Saud al-Funiasan claimed in comments on a Saudi website that women in equestrian events are "defiant public violators" of Islamic law.

"Authorities must prevent that. Only an impertinent ... would accept or praise such an act," said al-Funiasan, according to the Ijaz website.

[maiforpeace]

Can you tell me for sure that this is not what Islam is going to demand here once it gets a good foot hold?

*snip*

Letting them build the mosque at ground zero is one step closer to letting Islam get a foot hold here?

Do you honestly think Islam would have a chance of getting a foot hold, ever, in the US? A predominantly Christian nation? A nation with a government that specifically calls for separation of church and state? Sorry Kiki, but that does sound a bit paranoid.

Wouldn't it be something if they just said they would build the Mosque elsewhere. That would take the piss out of all the fear-mongering the tea party is totally capitalizing on. Maybe this is a right wing conspiracy?

And, why are they limiting their protests to ground zero. FYI, they just opened the first Muslim University in Bezerkly, CA...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/0 ... 68797.html

[Trolldor]

Islam is a vile religion of hate and bigotry. You honestly believe that any Muslim centre built at ground zero is not an attempt by Islam to spread it's influence? It's a massive 'fuck you' to the world to allow it to do so, not least of which because I have yet to see any Islamic attempt at 'good will' that did not inclued seceding to the will and wishes of some murderous or mysoginistic or bigoted wish of theirs, and where all you got in turn was a handshake. A temporary set of peace until they gained enough influence to use fear to achieve their goals.

[Robert_S]

I personally think the whole thing is a troll. That is, an attempt to stay just withing their rights while pissing their targets off, the goal of which is to provoke their targets into saying and doing things that reflect poorly. It might turn out to be a successful strategy, but I think it will backfire hard this time.

I'm fairly certain that angry white Christian bigots have more to do with the left's reluctance to really criticize Islam than the principles of tolerance and respect do.

[DRSB]

"Among major religious groups in the United States, Muslims give President Barack Obama the highest average approval ratings and Mormons, the lowest. Jews and those with no religious identity rate Obama higher than the national average, while Protestants' ratings are below average, and Catholics' near the average."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/142700/Musli ... 0Headlines

[kiki5711]

Can you tell me for sure that this is not what Islam is going to demand here once it gets a good foot hold?

*snip*

Letting them build the mosque at ground zero is one step closer to letting Islam get a foot hold here?

Do you honestly think Islam would have a chance of getting a foot hold, ever, in the US? A predominantly Christian nation? A nation with a government that specifically calls for separation of church and state? Sorry Kiki, but that does sound a bit paranoid.

Wouldn't it be something if they just said they would build the Mosque elsewhere. That would take the piss out of all the fear-mongering the tea party is totally capitalizing on. Maybe this is a right wing conspiracy?

And, why are they limiting their protests to ground zero. FYI, they just opened the first Muslim University in Bezerkly, CA...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/0 ... 68797.html

Mai,

I know it may sound kind of paranoia, but I was in a church organization for 10 yrs where the goal was exactly that. So, maybe it's cause of my experience that I'm in that paranoia mode and maybe I'm over doing it, I don't know. We were all taught of this and our goal was to act on it. We were told that even if it takes several generations, we must, for the love of god, spread the kingdom. It meant establishing our faith in neighborhoods all over the world, and spreading the messege. And to make sure it continues, teach our kids the same.

In the case of Islam, I don't think it's much different. The only difference with us was that we could blend in easily cause this is a predominantly Christian nation and the church I was in was Judeo/Christian International Church and Islam stands out because of how they dress, (for one).

We were told very much to be aware of politics and how we should vote so that it equals to the best ability to our teachings, and to try and influence people of power in the government and else where, with our teachings so that "the teachings" can be spread through these influental people.

I'm not making this up mai. Going to church isn't just going to church or mosque. They want to cover a lot more territory then a few stragglers on Sunday.

I see the kind of things Islam is demanding in other parts of the world, and they will here eventually as well. It just takes time.

Also, I have yet to see ONE mosque that is a community center for the WHOLE community. There are several mosques in my neighborhood and they all keep away from any NON muslim as if we were lepers, let alone do stuff together with us in a community center.

[DRSB]

Kiki, I agree with you on how awful fundamentatlism in general is. However, Christian Fundamentalilsm is in no way better thatn Islamic Fundamentalism. It is the "fundamentalism"- bit that sucks.

In US, weird as this is, considering that this is the world's greatest democracy we are talking about, the word "Atheist" has more negative connotations than Muslim! Or almost as many! What do you say to that?

[Robert_S]

Kiki, I agree with you on how awful fundamentatlism in general is. However, Christian Fundamentalilsm is in no way better thatn Islamic Fundamentalism. It is the "fundamentalism"- bit that sucks.

In US, weird as this is, considering that this is the world's greatest democracy we are talking about, the word "Atheist" has more negative connotations than Muslim! Or almost as many! What do you say to that?

Be that as it may, I feel so very much more safe being an ex-Christian than an ex-Muslim.

[Coito ergo sum]

Can you tell me for sure that this is not what Islam is going to demand here once it gets a good foot hold?

*snip*

Letting them build the mosque at ground zero is one step closer to letting Islam get a foot hold here?

Do you honestly think Islam would have a chance of getting a foot hold, ever, in the US? A predominantly Christian nation? A nation with a government that specifically calls for separation of church and state? Sorry Kiki, but that does sound a bit paranoid.

Wouldn't it be something if they just said they would build the Mosque elsewhere. That would take the piss out of all the fear-mongering the tea party is totally capitalizing on. Maybe this is a right wing conspiracy?

And, why are they limiting their protests to ground zero. FYI, they just opened the first Muslim University in Bezerkly, CA...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/0 ... 68797.html

With all due respect, it is not the tea party and it is not fear mongering that has most people opposed to the awful Cordoba Initiative putting up their supposed "cultural center." It is not bigotry. It is OPPOSITION TO the bigotry and intolerance of Imam Rauf, Daisy Khan and the awful Cordoba Initiative. Mosques are built in the US all the time without incident or comment or public outcry. It's THIS mosque, by THIS group that's the problem.

The Cordoba Initiative specifically seeks to have secular governments made "Sha'ria Compliant" (whatever that means).

You said it correctly when you asked why are they limiting the protests to ground zero? Why? Because most Americans are not opposed to Muslims worshiping as they please in the US. They oppose the ground zero mosque because behind it is a group that supports terrorist groups, advocates for Sha'ria law, opposes the separation of mosque and state, and is building this monstrous cultural center as finger in the eye to the United States.

Don't hand-wave away the opposition by attributing it to "tea party" bigotry. It's reasonable opposition to an objectionable organization, and just as those fuckwits at the Cordoba Initiative have a right to worship and advocate their position, so too do the rest of us have the right to oppose them and their project.

If they were truly looking to build bridges, they would take the opposition seriously, and try to understand the emotions of those who are emotionally troubled by the 9/11 events and the mosque being built so close to the scene of the mass murder. We are asked by Islamic groups constantly to not criticize them because we're blaspheming, to not draw cartoons because they are insulting and cause emotional pain to Muslims, to not insult the "prophet" Muhamat, etc., all in the name of being tolerant and sensitive. Well, it's not just a one way street, and if the Cordoba Initiative truly wants to mend fences with people in the US, they would be trying to compromise. They're not.

And, what exactly is the bridge building sentiment of building this thing and opening on 9/11/10, 10 years to the day after that fateful and horrific day where we watched Islamic Jihadi terrorists murder thousands of people, and got see on live television our countrymen and others leaping to their deaths from a burning building, immolated inside, buried alive and pulverized to mush, trapped, dismembered and slaughtered, all IN THE NAME OF an intolerant, misogynistic, anti-semitic, homophobic, anti-freedom of religion, anti-freedom of speech, anti-Enlightenment, Islamic Jihadi movement\?

If that's mending fences and building bridges, I'll remember to punch them in the face and spit in their eye and expect them to take it as a compliment.

[Coito ergo sum]

"Among major religious groups in the United States, Muslims give President Barack Obama the highest average approval ratings and Mormons, the lowest. Jews and those with no religious identity rate Obama higher than the national average, while Protestants' ratings are below average, and Catholics' near the average."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/142700/Musli ... 0Headlines

I really can't understand why Jews rate Obama higher than the national average. Any thoughts?

[Trolldor]

NWO NWO NWO!!!!!