Israel/Palestine; has the shit finally hit the fan?

[Audley Strange]

Wait a minute though. During the time of Arafat and the P.L.O. Israel gave support to Islamist groups like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in order to undermine the popularity of the more secular nationalist P.L.O. within Palestine. You know, just like the U.S. supported Islamist groups to undermine the Soviets (with help from Egypt and Israel too.)

So what does this tell us other than Israel will do anything and support anyone that impedes the end of this occupation? They do not wish for a solution because peace in the region means they are a trivial little squirt of a nation that no-one would give one single fuck about. The same also applies for the Islamist groups.

Quick questions as an aside -- what would Israel have to do to "end the occupation?" Which lands are the lands being occupied? And, what lands does Hamas think are "occupied?"

Problem is you are assuming I think either side desires and end to the occupation and as I have said several times I do not think they do. I'm not sure your question about "lands being occupied" are genuine because you've either read nothing about this conflict (which is false) or you don't accept the International community, the International Court of Justice, the U.N. General assembly and the Security council, the European Union the Arab League nor the humanitarian groups definition that there is an occupation of the lands, as such use "occupied" in quote like that if you wish or even "disputed territories" as the Israelis would have it. Still I'll be generous and consider you ignorant.

The occupied territories are the lands grabbed in the 6 day war. The Golan Heights, The West Bank East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, which are globally considered Palestinian Territory.

However if you are asking me as a hypothetical what I think? I think there should be a single state solution.

[Coito ergo sum]

Wait a minute though. During the time of Arafat and the P.L.O. Israel gave support to Islamist groups like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in order to undermine the popularity of the more secular nationalist P.L.O. within Palestine. You know, just like the U.S. supported Islamist groups to undermine the Soviets (with help from Egypt and Israel too.)

So what does this tell us other than Israel will do anything and support anyone that impedes the end of this occupation? They do not wish for a solution because peace in the region means they are a trivial little squirt of a nation that no-one would give one single fuck about. The same also applies for the Islamist groups.

Quick questions as an aside -- what would Israel have to do to "end the occupation?" Which lands are the lands being occupied? And, what lands does Hamas think are "occupied?"

Problem is you are assuming I think either side desires and end to the occupation and as I have said several times I do not think they do. I'm not sure your question about "lands being occupied" are genuine because you've either read nothing about this conflict (which is false) or you don't accept the International community, the International Court of Justice, the U.N. General assembly and the Security council, the European Union the Arab League nor the humanitarian groups definition that there is an occupation of the lands, as such use "occupied" in quote like that if you wish or even "disputed territories" as the Israelis would have it. Still I'll be generous and consider you ignorant.

The occupied territories are the lands grabbed in the 6 day war. The Golan Heights, The West Bank East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, which are globally considered Palestinian Territory.

However if you are asking me as a hypothetical what I think? I think there should be a single state solution.

You don't have to be insulting about it. I'm not ignorant.

Just because the UN thinks X, Y and Z are the occupied territories doesn't mean that all the players are in agreement on that being the case. Hamas, for example, thinks Israel itself is an occupied territory.

So, that's the genesis of my question -- what would Israel have to do? if they went back to the 1967 borders, would that stop the attacks on Israel? If so, why did the attacks occur in 1967 and at other times in the first place?

Isn't it true that the majority of Palestinians and Hamas as well as the PLO want to liberate "Palestine" meaning the area including West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights, East Jerusalem, West Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and the rest of the land presently known as Israel?

[Svartalf]

So, the Jews have also stolen the Palestinians race?

[Coito ergo sum]

Hooray for Pallywood!

http://www.news.com.au/world/pr-war-isr ... 6518018463

[mistermack]

I think the Israelis are even now working on the "final solution" to the Palestinian problem.

They are just doing it more gradually than Hitler tried with the jews.
No messy gas chambers or ovens. Kill the Palestinians a few every day, and eureka, they even dispose of their own dead for you.

You just miss out on the gold in the teeth, but it saves a lot of fuel.

[Coito ergo sum]

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.

[Rum]

The Jews are so much damned SMARTER than those Paliwhatists. They deserve to win FFS!

[Seth]

Wait a minute though. During the time of Arafat and the P.L.O. Israel gave support to Islamist groups like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in order to undermine the popularity of the more secular nationalist P.L.O. within Palestine. You know, just like the U.S. supported Islamist groups to undermine the Soviets (with help from Egypt and Israel too.)

So what does this tell us other than Israel will do anything and support anyone that impedes the end of this occupation? They do not wish for a solution because peace in the region means they are a trivial little squirt of a nation that no-one would give one single fuck about. The same also applies for the Islamist groups.

Quick questions as an aside -- what would Israel have to do to "end the occupation?" Which lands are the lands being occupied? And, what lands does Hamas think are "occupied?"

You can't really be this thick, can you?

The Israeli-occupied territories are the territories which have been designated as occupied territory by the United Nations and other international organizations, governments and others to refer to the territory seized by Israel during the Six-Day War of 1967 from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.

Oh, well, fuck the UN and everybody else. Israel has the right of conquest and the moral suasion of being attacked unprovoked by its neighbors in 1967, so "occupied territories" is meaningless propaganda. It's now Israel. End of story.

[Seth]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-h ... 39356.html

Just stop firing rockets into Israel. That's all they have to do.

Look - the reason Hamas is attacking Israel is not because they want Gaza and the West Bank to be left alone. The reason they are attacking Israel is because they think Israel should be part of a Palestinian state.

That is the problem.

The problem is is that the dominant force in the region commits war crimes and flouts UN resolutions and is slaughtering and greatly oppressing the Palestinians. Israel is the only one in a position to offer a solution. So far their only solution is to kill thousands of women and children. Fucking barbaric cunts. And fuck you and anyone else who apologises for such inhumane and evil cunts.

No, fuck YOU and anyone who apologizes for the terrorist Islamist evil and inhuman cunts.

[Seth]

And i've got to do a big facepalm about you going on about Palestinian rockets landing on or near schools in Israel (for which there has been zero deaths), all the while the Israeli's are slaughtering Palestinian children in shocking numbers. What the fuck is wrong with this picture, eh?

Well, that's what happens when the Islamic terrorists set up their rocket launchers near schools, hospitals and homes, which they do precisely so that they can take propaganda pictures and engage in faux outrage. They don't care how many Palestinian women and kids get killed because to those fuckwads, each and every one of them is a martyr for the Cause and is going straight to paradise.

Hiding behind your own women and children to try to prevent your enemy from bombing you is a hoary old war crime, and Israel is rightfully ignoring the collateral damage, which is caused by the terrorists and their cowardly behavior.

If the women and children don't like being used as human shields, perhaps they should stick a butcher knife in any terrorist fuck who sets up a rocket launcher near their kids.

[Ian]

BREAKING NEWS: Israel and Hamas have agreed to an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire to begin at 10pm Greenwich Mean Time (5hrs 20 min from now).

[Seth]

BREAKING NEWS: Israel and Hamas have agreed to an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire to begin at 10pm Greenwich Mean Time (5hrs 20 min from now).

Yeah, like THAT'S going to do any good. Hamas is just stalling for time so it can smuggle in more arms and rockets.

Isn't Israel being nice and civilized thought?

[Kristie]

BREAKING NEWS: Israel and Hamas have agreed to an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire to begin at 10pm Greenwich Mean Time (5hrs 20 min from now).

Yeah, like THAT'S going to do any good. Hamas is just stalling for time so it can smuggle in more arms and rockets.

Isn't Israel being nice and civilized thought?

I do ove your optimism.

[Coito ergo sum]

BREAKING NEWS: Israel and Hamas have agreed to an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire to begin at 10pm Greenwich Mean Time (5hrs 20 min from now).

Yup -- cease fire starts at 5pm I think.

"No country would tolerate rocket attacks against its cities and against its civilians. Israel cannot tolerate such attacks. If a long-term solution can be put in place through diplomatic means, then Israel would be a willing partner to such a solution. But if stronger military action proves necessary to stop the constant barrage of rockets, Israel will not hesitate to do what is necessary to defend our people." - Netanyahu

"The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah." -- Ismail Haniyeh (head of Hamas Administration in Gaza).

"Palestine is Islamic, and not an Islamic emirate, from the river to the sea, that unites the Palestinians. Jews have no right in it, with the exception of those who lived on the land of Palestine before World War I." Mahmoud al-Zahar (Hamas leader).

"We have liberated Gaza, but have we recognized Israel? Have we given up our lands occupied in 1948? We demand the liberation of the West Bank, and the establishment of a state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as its capital – but without recognizing [Israel]. This is the key – without recognizing the Israeli enemy on a single inch of land. ...
"Our plan for this stage is to liberate any inch of Palestinian land, and to establish a state on it. Our ultimate plan is [to have] Palestine in its entirety. I say this loud and clear so that nobody will accuse me of employing political tactics. We will not recognize the Israeli enemy." Hallil Al-Hayya (Hamas leader).

Hamas principles: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

[Rum]

I didn't write this, but I agree with it..

"Unlike Islam's quran, which commands Muslims to force the entire planet to submit to literal control by Islam, the Jewish Torah promises the children of Israel a modest and reasonable allotment of land. Israel , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times her size, 60 times her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide"? (From Beardy Git's FB page)