Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

[Brian Peacock]

As for the floundering Mrs May. I think the best thing at this point would be for her to rule out a no-deal Brexit: to take that off the table and say that crashing out of the EU and into fantasy WHO-land simply isn't an viable, prudent option. 'No deal' isn't better than a bad deal - a 'no deal' would be a catastrophe from everyone, even those with substantial private means.

[Svartalf]

Not so sure... I suspect that Socrates as a partisan of philosopher kings might be a thing that took more from Plato than from Socrates himself.

[Animavore]

"We Shall Fight Ourselves On The Beaches” Confirms May

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/1 ... ADnVGaUYW4

[Scot Dutchy]

Well that is the position she has got herself into.

[Brian Peacock]

Although the Daily Mail is trying the "Oh, look over there!" approach, bigging-up Dec Donnelly's return to Britain's Got Talent after a very public and costly rehab, they do sneak Brexit onto the bottom of the front page: Cabinet at war on Brexit: Amber Rudd and Philip Hammond are among five ministers ‘swinging towards second referendum’ while Sajid Javid and three others urge PM to make No Deal government's top priority.

[Scot Dutchy]

Why is it at war? This type of language is not helping.

[Scot Dutchy]

Cant go wrong now the blokes in frocks are praying:

Bishops pray for politicians' integrity amid Brexit turmoil

CofE leaders also call for national unity as Jo Johnson urges May to hold vote on deal

[Hermit]

Not so sure... I suspect that Socrates as a partisan of philosopher kings might be a thing that took more from Plato than from Socrates himself.

The fact that Socrates never wrote down a word in his life is probably the biggest problem when trying to figure out what positions he adopted, and yes, Plato used him as a mouthpiece for his own views, increasingly so as years wore on.

Plato is not the only contemporary source of things Socratean, though. Aristophanes knew Socrates as a young man (Plato was 24 when his teacher was condemned to death). He portrayed Socrates in at least three of his plays I know of. Then there was Xenophon.

Most importantly, there are the comments of several of the 30 tyrants ruling Athens on behalf of Sparta for several months, who also were Socrates's students.

My study of the ancient Greeks is minimal, consisting of only one trimester. I hated Sydney Uni's T&M department, so I only took the courses they offered that were compulsory. Nevertheless, I think that I have absorbed enough to conclude that the real reason for Socrates's death sentence was political, that is to say his support for the aristocratic oligarchy.

[DRSB]

Socrates is the original Stoic.
https://donaldrobertson.name/2018/04/18 ... -socrates/

[Jason]

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[Brian Peacock]

Mrs May has no standing wherever she stands...

Theresa May has three objectives. The first is to remain prime minister. The second is to get a parliamentary majority for her withdrawal agreement made with the European Union. The third is to fulfil the first two objectives without splitting the Conservative party. She is unlikely to succeed. The reason rests with the principal opponents in her own party: those Tory MPs who want a second referendum and those who want a hard Brexit. Mrs May wanted both to act in their narrow self-interest rather than cooperating with each other by simultaneously rejecting her agreement. Her line had been that they must choose from among her deal, no deal, or no Brexit. However, the hardline Brexiters did not think her deal was enough to stop another referendum, while the supporters of another referendum in the Tory party did not see her deal as a way to stop the rightwing absolutists getting a no-deal outcome. Significantly, both wings of the Tory party condemned it as “vassalage”. Mrs May’s failure to win either of these factions to her side has been at the root of her parliamentary troubles...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... not-waving

A notable feature of the Leave campaign was the out-of-hand dismissal of those who foresaw great economic problems with Brexit. It led to prominent Leavers adopting a 'scathe-all' policy, chiding, for example, economist Nobel laureates, the OECD, and independent forecasters as the kind of 'so-called experts who always get things wrong', declaring that dissenters weren't just mistaken or misguided, but willful and malicious liars, and labeling anything else that challenged their views as a product of "Project Fear!"

Now, the irony is of course that the Leave campaigns were entirely based on fear, on actually inculcating fear within the receptive minds of the UK population. For this they relied on a never ending stream of anecdote and fiction which talked about a tsunami of immigrants taking over the high street, of English being a second language, of rising crime due to migration, of hospital beds, school places, GP appointments, council houses, and benefits being stolen by interlopers who were only here to milk the system and make fools of the so-called "native population".



This is ancient history of course, but I mention it because Mrs May appears to be resorting to the same kind of tactics in a doomed attempt to force Parliament to accept her deal - exploiting a fear about what could happen if we (well, technically Parliament) don't swing her way...

Cabinet considering ramping up no-deal plans

The cabinet is discussing whether to ramp up preparations for a no-deal Brexit amid uncertainty over the fate of Theresa May's proposed EU exit deal.

Ministers will set out how much money each department is being given to prepare, should the UK leave the EU on 29 March without a formal agreement.

MPs will not vote on the PM's deal until the third week in January. Labour, which has tabled a motion of no confidence in the PM, has accused Mrs May of trying to "run down the clock".

Number 10 dismissed the motion - which is unlikely to be debated until early next year - as "silly political games".

With 101 days left until Brexit and many MPs still opposed to the government's withdrawal agreement, ministers are due to consider a paper on plans for leaving the EU without a deal...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46600850

It's a political gamble for May - but what has she got to lose at this point - like holding the baby over the cooking pot and saying "If you don't do what I say I'll drop the baby - is that what you want? Do you want me to drop the baby?" It's the government's deal, or BoJo or Rees-Mogg for PM, is that what you want? Do you want Mogsy for PM?

This threat is extended as much to her own party as it is to the nation.

In other news, the former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams has collected the signatures of the great and good in a letter suggesting that a so-called People's Assembly could be convened to help break the Parliamentary deadlock. It's a nice idea.

[Rum]

They can’t *not* plan for a no deal brexit otherwise they’d be accused of gross incompetence (even more than they already are!), but by planning they are also playing into the hands of the hard Brexiteers. A no win.

Talk about omnishambles.

[Brian Peacock]

It's a game of chicken.

[Scot Dutchy]

The tightrope is looking very thin.

[JimC]

It's not too late to emigrate to sunny Oz, folks...