Barack Obama wins the Nobel Peace prize

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The children aren't deciding for themselves whether they think this president is doing a great job, they're being told he is, and this message is being reinforced with the cunning use of music, a very useful indoctrination tool.

Pardon me, but how many political decisions do 2nd graders usually get? FFS, it's just a stupid little song.

[charlou]

The children aren't deciding for themselves whether they think this president is doing a great job, they're being told he is, and this message is being reinforced with the cunning use of music, a very useful indoctrination tool.

Pardon me, but how many political decisions do 2nd graders usually get? FFS, it's just a stupid little song.

Really?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The children aren't deciding for themselves whether they think this president is doing a great job, they're being told he is, and this message is being reinforced with the cunning use of music, a very useful indoctrination tool.

Pardon me, but how many political decisions do 2nd graders usually get? FFS, it's just a stupid little song.

Really?

Hitler's here. Thread's over.

[charlou]

"History teaches us that we learn nothing from history."

[charlou]

To clarify, I am not likening Obama or his policies to Hitler ... this is nothing to do with Obama, but about ideological indoctrination of children.

[leo-rcc]

Hitler's here. Thread's over.

I'm sorry but this is one of those times Godwin's law applies and is justified. It is nothing more than glorification of the persona, and indoctrination.

[charlou]

Hitler's here. Thread's over.

I'm sorry but this is one of those times Godwin's law applies and is justified. It is nothing more than glorification of the persona, and indoctrination.

I agree. I'd post clips of film I've seen on television of children of communist and dictatorial societies singing along to propagandist tunes with the same shiny eyed innocent naivete, if the clips were available on YouTube.

It makes no difference whether I personally agree with part of the message (in this case the humanist element), it's this method of application that is very, very wrong.

[charlou]

[charlou]

[Hermit]

There is something sickening about ten year olds being taught songs of adulation of any country's leader. Yes, the intention to bring happiness and freedom is commendable indeed, and the song at the start of the last youtube link that Charlou provided above sounds harmless on a superficial level, but parallels with another one should start alarm bells ringing.

Hans Baumann was a 17 year old catholic scout in 1930, when he wrote a song that was meant to anticipate victory over the ways of the preceding generation of warmongers and the fear and terror it induced. It included the lines: "Denn heute, da hört uns Deutschland/und morgen die ganze Welt". It was a song of optimism.

I shuddered when I listened to its most recent incarnation:

• We're gonna spread happiness.
  We're gonna spread freedom.
  Obama's gonna change it.
  Obama's gonna lead'em.
  We're gonna change it
  And rearrange it.
  We're gonna change the world.

In light of how its predecessor was appropriated and abused, it takes on an entirely sinister complexion, but the worst aspect is that it combines adulation of a leader with ideas in the mouths of children that can have no comprehension of those concepts at that level.

[eXcommunicate]

I think the importance some of you are placing on such isolated incidents is amusing.

[charlou]

I think the importance some of you are placing on such isolated incidents is amusing.

A few unimportant isolated incidents of indoctrination, you say? Oh, well then ... no need to express an opinion or discuss any further. I'll just head back on over to The Fuck Thread and excrete a few expletives.

[floppit]

With no soundcard war by youtube is a little lost on me, not entirely a bad thing.

I may have lost some of the details due to speed reading catching up and the mysterious mute screen shows, so I apologise in advance if this isn't as well aimed as it might be.

I hope to hell that Obama is a Ghandi rather than a Mussolini. I'm not against Americans, but I am against the nationalism because the latter is something history has shown to have some truly awful downsides. Not being American I don't know for certain that it's true each child in school chants this each morning:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

If it is true and that level of unquestioning nationalism is profoundly indoctrinated daily then coupled with Americas high level of disparity between rich and poor, the current depression, and an ongoing war - one had better hope the emerging hero is one hell of a bloody wise man, not to mention one with impeccable intentions.

Songs praising a political leader in schools is pretty obviously dodgy, but also given the above background, highly likely. Protesting against the song is (it seems to me) a local issue and worthy but not really an international issue. It is certainly indoctrination as the intention to persuade is acted on via a misuse of power, the teacher does rule the class and using that power to further their own opinion is wrong, even if the opinion is correct. However, if nationally the USA decides it is wrong then surely it would by the same standard bring the Pledge of Allegiance into question?

As for the Nobel Prize I suspect it was intended as much as a hopeful/worried carrot to work to peaceful ends - and, of course, a bloody great snub to Bush.

[FBM]

I've not been in the US for over a decade, but as far as I know, every elementary school still has that as part of its indoctrination ritual. Some school, not sure if all, have removed the "under God" under pressure from the ACLU or somebody, but not sure if it's been banned nationwide or not. The original version didn't even have "under God". It was added later.

[eXcommunicate]

I think the importance some of you are placing on such isolated incidents is amusing.

A few unimportant isolated incidents of indoctrination, you say? Oh, well then ... no need to express an opinion or discuss any further. I'll just head back on over to The Fuck Thread and excrete a few expletives.

Look to the thread over at RD.net for further comment.