Bang, Bang, Yer Dead!

[Blind groper]

And you think that the police WILL be on every street corner within seconds when you need them? (Shaking my head in utter disbelief at the stupidity of that notion.)

Seth continues to ignore the simple fact that the USA is the only advanced western nation with freely available guns, and it also has the highest - massively highest - homicide rate. Your way has failed.

[Gallstones]

And you think that the police WILL be on every street corner within seconds when you need them? (Shaking my head in utter disbelief at the stupidity of that notion.)

Seth continues to ignore the simple fact that the USA is the only advanced western nation with freely available guns, and it also has the highest - massively highest - homicide rate. Your way has failed.

Our way of what?

[Seth]

And you think that the police WILL be on every street corner within seconds when you need them? (Shaking my head in utter disbelief at the stupidity of that notion.)

Seth continues to ignore the simple fact that the USA is the only advanced western nation with freely available guns, and it also has the highest - massively highest - homicide rate. Your way has failed.

Works for me...

[JimC]

Wumbologist wrote:

On the other hand, the Lieutenant here who fingerprinted me for my License to Carry, voiced his approval of my decision to pursue it and to carry daily, saying "We can't be on every street corner within seconds when you need us".

Don't get me wrong, this is by no means a personal comment, but this is precisely the sort of thing which makes people from other countries shake their heads in utter disbelief, as if they are suddenly seeing a totally alien society.

So like us in many ways, but so different...

It saddens me to see how easy it is to think of other people as "alien".

Not actually in a critical way, but just trying to express how deeply different this aspect of US society is to the places I and many others live...

Of course, many other elements are very similar...

Also, nothing personal whatsoever!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Then why the feeling that you're at liberty to scold an entire country?

[Blind groper]

Then why the feeling that you're at liberty to scold an entire country?

Gawdzilla

This is a debate about the harm caused by guns.
We are simply discussing the debate topic. Not scolding anyone.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Then why the feeling that you're at liberty to scold an entire country?

Gawdzilla

This is a debate about the harm caused by guns.
We are simply discussing the debate topic. Not scolding anyone.

That's not how you sound. You sound holier-than-thou and judgmental of an entire country based on one facet of that country. It's getting tedious.

[Wumbologist]

I asked my dad if I could take the .22 with me when I move to wherever I end up moving. He said no, not because I am a poor shot, but because I am a decent shot.

Also he uses it to kill vermin like coyotes, skunks, and big ass rodents.

You'll just have to buy yourself another .22, then. I can help you pick one.

[FBM]

And you think that the police WILL be on every street corner within seconds when you need them? (Shaking my head in utter disbelief at the stupidity of that notion.)

Seth continues to ignore the simple fact that the USA is the only advanced western nation with freely available guns, and it also has the highest - massively highest - homicide rate. Your way has failed.

Without the biases on "advanced", "western" and "with freely available guns", this is not factual. What's the point of those biases? The people in developing countries somehow don't count?


http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

[Wumbologist]

And you think that the police WILL be on every street corner within seconds when you need them? (Shaking my head in utter disbelief at the stupidity of that notion.)

Seth continues to ignore the simple fact that the USA is the only advanced western nation with freely available guns, and it also has the highest - massively highest - homicide rate. Your way has failed.

Without the biases on "advanced", "western" and "with freely available guns", this is not factual. What's the point of those biases? The people in developing countries somehow don't count?


http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

And Switzerland, which does have comparative ease of access for handguns, somehow magically doesn't count because their homicide is low. But yeah, if you specifically tailor the criteria so that the US is the only nation that fits the criteria, then you'll find that the US stands out quite a bit in that narrow field.

[FBM]

He's gaming the system!!

[JimC]

Then why the feeling that you're at liberty to scold an entire country?

Gawdzilla

This is a debate about the harm caused by guns.
We are simply discussing the debate topic. Not scolding anyone.

Exactly. If you take it as scolding, it's certainly not our intention...

(mistermack does scold, but I have indicated I disagree with his approach)

I'm just trying to establish the fact that this particular aspect of US culture appears very strange from the outside, which makes a strong contrast to the many other things which do not...

[Blind groper]

And Switzerland, which does have comparative ease of access for handguns, somehow magically doesn't count because their homicide is low. But yeah, if you specifically tailor the criteria so that the US is the only nation that fits the criteria, then you'll find that the US stands out quite a bit in that narrow field.

The narrow field, as I explained before is simply the advanced western nations. I have applied no bias. The lists published on Wiki are ones I go through, and pick out the European, Australasian, and North American countries that can be compared to each other for wealth and for social and technological development.

Switzerland is certainly an interesting case. it is second on the list for firearm ownership. USA has 89% gun ownership and Switzerland 46% - just over half the American figure. Latest figure for homicide rate is USA 4.2 and Switzerland 0.7. Does this mean the Swiss are more civilised, or that they have fewer hand guns? I will need to investigate further.

For your information, I have 19 nations which I call advanced western. They are :

USA, Switzerland,Finland, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands,France, Canada, Austria, Germany, Iceland, New Zealand, Australia, Greece, Belgium, Denmark, Italy, Spain, and the UK.

I feel these are appropriate comparisons for the social impact of gun ownership, rather than Russia, Swaziland, Uganda, China, Myanmar etc.

Edit : I checked on Switzerland. They are different from the USA in that they have fewer hand guns, and it is totally forbidden to carry a hand gun in public unless the person has a special license which is given only to people who can justify that in terms of their vocation. ie. police or security personnel. So their lower homicide rate would appear to be due to the fact that there are no people out in public with those lethal hand guns, except a few specialists on duty.

[FBM]

What difference does it make how advanced the nation is? Just wondering.

[Blind groper]

What difference does it make how advanced the nation is? Just wondering.

Just a case of comparing apples with apples and not oranges. I am comparing the USA with its peers.