UK, you're doing it wrong. This would never happen in Asia..

[Sisifo]

I refuse to be aggressive about my beliefs and preferences. I'll politely voice my opinions, if asked, about the unnecessary cruelty to animals and other issues, but I won't get into an argument about them, nor will I nurture a spirit of intolerance. I recognize others' right to make their own decisions based on their own values. "We've got a right to see it wrong if freedom's to survive." (OK, it's just from an old Steppenwolf song, but I like it. ) It doesn't bother me that others see things differently. Why would I expect things to be different? It's not like I consider myself to be omniscient or inerrant.

I disagree strongly with torturing dogs to death, so I don't torture dogs to death. I'm not on a Crusade over it. My present reality is that I'm in Korea, not the US or Europe or Oz. Some people eat dogs here. If I'm invited to dinner by friends or colleagues, and the majority want to eat dog, I eat dog. If I can politely persuade them to choose a different restaurant, I will. However, it's incumbent upon me to respect the culture of the country that I'm voluntarily living in; not to launch a crusade to convert it to Western values. Likewise, I would appreciate it if they didn't try to convert my home country to their values if they chose to live in the US. That's just basic mutual respect, tolerance and peaceful co-existence.

I live in Asia, same as you, as I have lived in many other cultural regions, and I have had this topic of conversation weekly for the past 8 years.
Any tradition is eventually called to be respected as a cultural value, but they are not. They are simple primitive traditions that are no pity to lose. We are not talking about folk songs. We are talking about barbarism. The dogs in this topic. The bullfighting in my motherland. Slavery in Mauritania (yes. In the s.XXI). The misogyny in Arab countries. Female genital mutilation... All kind of aberrations are done in the name of culture. They are just barbaric cruel traditions, elegies to torture; and to get rid of them has a name: Progress.
I can't fight all those monstrosities, but I can and I will eliminate them from my space of influence which is me, my home, my work and social circles, and anyone who has professional or personal interest on me.
When they have taken me to a dog restaurant, or they serve me dog in a restaurant, I stand up and leave. Period. That company has lost a contract and maybe more, because I will not recommend them to any. And seeming silly, it is not, because in very short years I have created a feeling of shame about that in the people within my influence, that I'm sure it leads towards the abandon of that tradition in some of them. It is not funny any more. It is dangerous, because they risk my favor for eating dog.
And I did the same in Arab countries with other aspects of their "culture", and in Africa. Ignorance and cruelty is never culture and if I stay silent about it to those who, at least, listen willingfully or dutyfully to me, I would be worth less than a fart in the wind under my own eyes.

[AshtonBlack]

Well said Sisifo. I agree.

[FBM]

I live in Asia, same as you, as I have lived in many other cultural regions, and...if I stay silent about it to those who, at least, listen willingfully or dutyfully to me, I would be worth less than a fart in the wind under my own eyes.

And I wouldn't presume to suggest you do otherwise than your best judgement leads you to do. Eating dog is not equal to female genital mutilation or any of the other atrocities you mentioned. There is no connection, no comparison. Eating dog meat is equal to eating dog meat, nothing else. Torturing dogs is a bit closer, and that's what I object to. Eating, OK. Torturing, no.

[Trolldor]

Yeh guess we don't have enough sociopaths to torture our animals to death ,and our government actually enforce the rule of law .

I agree. I think the people who torture dogs or anything else to death should be treated the same way. I love animals and hate to see anything suffer.

But, like Paco, I don't see a good, objective, scientific reason to single out dogs as forbidden. They should just be treated humanely.

There's not an objective, scientific reason, other than that other animals are easier to farm and can not form emotional bonds with humans as easily?

[Feck]

Yeh guess we don't have enough sociopaths to torture our animals to death ,and our government actually enforce the rule of law .

I agree. I think the people who torture dogs or anything else to death should be treated the same way. I love animals and hate to see anything suffer.

But, like Paco, I don't see a good, objective, scientific reason to single out dogs as forbidden. They should just be treated humanely.

There's not an objective, scientific reason, other than that other animals are easier to farm and can not form emotional bonds with humans as easily?

And we tend not to eat carnivores (exp fish) as it wastes energy ,I've tried fox and badger and cat and lion thought they all tasted a bit rank .

[FBM]

Yeh guess we don't have enough sociopaths to torture our animals to death ,and our government actually enforce the rule of law .

I agree. I think the people who torture dogs or anything else to death should be treated the same way. I love animals and hate to see anything suffer.

But, like Paco, I don't see a good, objective, scientific reason to single out dogs as forbidden. They should just be treated humanely.

There's not an objective, scientific reason, other than that other animals are easier to farm and can not form emotional bonds with humans as easily?

I have the unpleasant misfortune of living not too far from a dog farm. From what I see, they're just as easy to farm as anything else. I'd still like to do to the farmer what he does to the dogs, though.

And we tend not to eat carnivores (exp fish) as it wastes energy ,I've tried fox and badger and cat and lion thought they all tasted a bit rank .

And birds, turtles, snakes, frogs and the like, but yes, those things comprise a relatively small percentage of our diet, if you exclude...chicken. Well, pigs are omnivores and will eat meat without hesitation, but still, there's no dietary need for dog meat in particular, and if the practice were to end, I'd be quite happy about it. Until then, the more pressing issue for me is to stop the torture.


EDIT: Wait...lion? WTF? How and why did you procure and eat lion meat? They're endangered, aren't they?

[Sisifo]

And birds, turtles, snakes, frogs and the like, but yes, those things comprise a relatively small percentage of our diet, if you exclude...chicken. Well, pigs are omnivores and will eat meat without hesitation, but still, there's no dietary need for dog meat in particular, and if the practice were to end, I'd be quite happy about it. Until then, the more pressing issue for me is to stop the torture.

I don't know in Korea. In Vietnam all the weird food, including dog, are eaten out of superstition, not culture. Cobra heart is supposed to have aphrodisiac properties (why all kind of animals must suffer the penis complex of men??). Dog meat in particular is supposed to have strengthening properties because of its strong flavor. Because it is getting more and more relegated to uncultivated people, it has also consequences in food safety. Recently most of the dog restaurants in the North of Vietnam were closed because it was detected cholera in most of them. I hope that development and the abandon of superstition will make the practice socially unacceptable. I hope...

[FBM]

I don't know in Korea. In Vietnam all the weird food, including dog, are eaten out of superstition, not culture. Cobra heart is supposed to have aphrodisiac properties (why all kind of animals must suffer the penis complex of men??). Dog meat in particular is supposed to have strengthening properties because of its strong flavor. Because it is getting more and more relegated to uncultivated people, it has also consequences in food safety. Recently most of the dog restaurants in the North of Vietnam were closed because it was detected cholera in most of them. I hope that development and the abandon of superstition will make the practice socially unacceptable. I hope...

Yeah, same here. Koreans have this bullshit belief that eating dog is good for 'stamina', by which they mean sexual stamina, as well as for enduring the heat of the summer. There's a mushroom that's somewhat penis-shaped, so they think it's good for the same thing, as well as snake, which they soak in alcohol. They think that because cats are so agile that eating them is good for your back.

[JimC]

Sisifo wrote:

...In Vietnam all the weird food, including dog, are eaten out of superstition, not culture....

Very hard to tell the difference, sometimes...

[The Curious Squid]

What you're saying doesn't make sense to me Sisifo, we should be no more ashamed of eating dog than we are by eating any farm animals. Humans have disrupted the course of natural selection on many more species than wolves alone and to give dogs elevated status because we generally encourage loyalty in them is bullshit. You're trying to give weight to your argument by having us think of dogs purely as pets when in actual fact there are wild dogs that don't show any of the emotional traits that you're trying to highlight and other domestic animals that do exhibit the behaviours you're honouring dogs with. It seems to me that your argument is more geared towards the difference between eating pets and eating domestic/wild animals than it is with eating dogmeat specifically. After all, i'd happily try dog meat because I haven't eaten it before but I would never even conceive of eating someon's pet like mrenutt's dog Feck and the same goes for every other animal if it is a pet.

[Trolldor]

There's no scientific rational justification behind anything humans do, only objective causes, and rationality has nothing to do with objectivity. Rationality has to do with attempting to find the best possible outcome, but nothing about the most objective.

[FBM]

seems that superstition is an aspect of culture...I'm not sure how one would distinguish or separate the two...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

seems that superstition is an aspect of culture...I'm not sure how one would distinguish or separate the two...

Expel the gods.

[Feck]

It seems to me that your argument is more geared towards the difference between eating pets and eating domestic/wild animals than it is with eating dogmeat specifically. After all, i'd happily try dog meat because I haven't eaten it before but I would never even conceive of eating someon's pet like mrenutt's dog Feck and the same goes for every other animal if it is a pet.

Dunno Paco ,Feck would probably be a bit tough now and would be best suited to braising rather than a full on rare roast ,But what
a fine joint a hind leg would be ..... that's one big chunk of muscle and low fat too .

[redunderthebed]

Here is the thing with dogs you aren't eating pets they are like chicken sheep cows et al bred to be eaten and fed well and in most cases treated well throughout there lives. I would have no problem eating dog meat that is bred for consumption if someone was going around killing peoples companions and eating them then that's wrong.

Its like any other animal for human consumption if its treated and fed well then i have no problem eating it.It just needs to be legalised regulated and subjects to OH & S and food safety standards because we can't stick our head in the sand and just say its bad it will happen and will always happen.