Man 'too fat' to live in New Zealand

[Blind groper]

Seth

The phrase is TANSTAAFL. Try to pay attention.

Re Pacific Islanders etc.
Many of them have a special arrangement with NZ. Samoans, Rarotongans, Niueans, Tokelauans all have automatic access to NZ. So the normal immigration rules do not apply. Yes, plenty of them are seriously over-weight. I read somewhere that Polynesians have a minor genetic difference that causes them to conserve fat more efficiently than Europeans. So their excess weight is not entirely their own fault.

[laklak]

NFFNA.

No Fat Fucks Need Apply.

[Seth]

Seth

The phrase is TANSTAAFL. Try to pay attention.

Re Pacific Islanders etc.
Many of them have a special arrangement with NZ. Samoans, Rarotongans, Niueans, Tokelauans all have automatic access to NZ. So the normal immigration rules do not apply. Yes, plenty of them are seriously over-weight. I read somewhere that Polynesians have a minor genetic difference that causes them to conserve fat more efficiently than Europeans. So their excess weight is not entirely their own fault.

Probably evolved during the time when food was scarce and they were eating each other, like the inhabitants of Rapa Nui.

Now they've got McDonalds and can't manage to not stuff their faces at every turn.

[Seth]

Here's another gross failure of socialized medicine:

British Doctor Allegedly Tells 9-Year-Old With ‘Badly Broken’ Leg to Go Home & ‘Walk It Off’
Jul. 29, 2013 7:00pm Erica Ritz

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Britain’s National Health Service (NHS) says it cannot comment on individual cases, but is looking into reports that a 9-year-old girl with a “badly broken leg” was told by a doctor to go home and “walk it off” after he “failed to spot” the injury, in the words of the Yorkshire Post.

Lucy Holmes said she was trying to avoid a pothole while rollerblading when she suffered the nasty fall. Her mother, Helen, immediately took her to the Hull Royal Infirmary, where the family said they had to wait about six hours before being seen.

Speaking with the Hull Daily Mail, the family said when they finally saw a medical professional, the doctor asked Lucy to try walking on the leg.

She said she can’t “remember much else as I was in so much pain,” but instead of taking an X-ray or continuing the examination, the doctor allegedly told Lucy to go home and try to “walk it off.”

“We feel really guilty because we were getting annoyed with Lucy on the Sunday night and said she must be overacting,” the girl’s father said.
Lucy Hull Breaks Leg in U.K., Doctor Allegedly Tells Her to Walk it Off

(Photo via the Daily Hull)

But the parents took Lucy back to the hospital the next day, where an eventual X-ray revealed that the child had a serious spiral fracture.

The entire family was horrified.

“There is something drastically wrong when you can’t get an X-ray,” Lucy’s father said. “We know there have been some cuts but is my daughter not worth an X-ray?”

Her grandmother added that “something has to be done about this” and “you have to [be able to] trust what the doctors say.”

The family is not seeking compensation for their ordeal, but say they want to “highlight the problems we suffered.”

The story is starting to be picked up by national and international news organizations, including the U.K. Telegraph and the U.K. Daily Mail.

You can watch an interview with Lucy, below:

Britain’s National Health Service, though lauded by many within the country, has a frightening history of neglect and abuse.

In a Mid Staffordshire hospital, an investigation found that up to 1,200 people died unnecessarily and in horrifying conditions, some of the less mobile patients dying of thirst and starvation.

Doctors recently excoriated the system as “worse than Communist China.”

Last week the U.K. Telegraph reported that a 6-year-old died of pneumonia at the Leicester Royal Infirmary after staff confused him with someone who had a “do not resuscitate” order, who had already been checked out of the hospital.

[pErvinalia]

Seth

The phrase is TANSTAAFL. Try to pay attention.

Re Pacific Islanders etc.
Many of them have a special arrangement with NZ. Samoans, Rarotongans, Niueans, Tokelauans all have automatic access to NZ. So the normal immigration rules do not apply. Yes, plenty of them are seriously over-weight. I read somewhere that Polynesians have a minor genetic difference that causes them to conserve fat more efficiently than Europeans. So their excess weight is not entirely their own fault.

The other thing is, it's also cultural. The Tongans and Samoans (and possibly some of the others) reify hugeness!

[pErvinalia]

Here's another gross failure of socialized medicine:

British Doctor Allegedly Tells 9-Year-Old With ‘Badly Broken’ Leg to Go Home & ‘Walk It Off’
Jul. 29, 2013 7:00pm Erica Ritz

66
50
1
0
32

Britain’s National Health Service (NHS) says it cannot comment on individual cases, but is looking into reports that a 9-year-old girl with a “badly broken leg” was told by a doctor to go home and “walk it off” after he “failed to spot” the injury, in the words of the Yorkshire Post.

Lucy Holmes said she was trying to avoid a pothole while rollerblading when she suffered the nasty fall. Her mother, Helen, immediately took her to the Hull Royal Infirmary, where the family said they had to wait about six hours before being seen.

Speaking with the Hull Daily Mail, the family said when they finally saw a medical professional, the doctor asked Lucy to try walking on the leg.

She said she can’t “remember much else as I was in so much pain,” but instead of taking an X-ray or continuing the examination, the doctor allegedly told Lucy to go home and try to “walk it off.”

“We feel really guilty because we were getting annoyed with Lucy on the Sunday night and said she must be overacting,” the girl’s father said.
Lucy Hull Breaks Leg in U.K., Doctor Allegedly Tells Her to Walk it Off

(Photo via the Daily Hull)

But the parents took Lucy back to the hospital the next day, where an eventual X-ray revealed that the child had a serious spiral fracture.

The entire family was horrified.

“There is something drastically wrong when you can’t get an X-ray,” Lucy’s father said. “We know there have been some cuts but is my daughter not worth an X-ray?”

Her grandmother added that “something has to be done about this” and “you have to [be able to] trust what the doctors say.”

The family is not seeking compensation for their ordeal, but say they want to “highlight the problems we suffered.”

The story is starting to be picked up by national and international news organizations, including the U.K. Telegraph and the U.K. Daily Mail.

You can watch an interview with Lucy, below:

Britain’s National Health Service, though lauded by many within the country, has a frightening history of neglect and abuse.

In a Mid Staffordshire hospital, an investigation found that up to 1,200 people died unnecessarily and in horrifying conditions, some of the less mobile patients dying of thirst and starvation.

Doctors recently excoriated the system as “worse than Communist China.”

Last week the U.K. Telegraph reported that a 6-year-old died of pneumonia at the Leicester Royal Infirmary after staff confused him with someone who had a “do not resuscitate” order, who had already been checked out of the hospital.

Adapt or die.

[mistermack]

It's a bit harsh, as he's been there a while, and has had no warning before this.
It would have been more sensible to tell him that he had to lose X amount by the next annual renewal, not just refuse to renew.
And/or to insist that he had full private health insurance to cover the next year, giving him chance to get the weight down.

Of course, maybe he WAS warned. You don't always get the full truth in these stories.

Of course, maybe he did lose weight. 30kg so far, in fact.

Yes of course, that's in the OP. I'm commenting on the options he could have been given today.
I would have given him another year, but with the proviso that he has to shed 15 kg by then next renewal, or he's out.
And do the same next year.
With that kind of incentive, I could even manage that myself. Especially in an active occupation.
Being a chef, it's not as if he doesn't know about food, and he should be able to source fruit and veg at a good price.

[laklak]

Hang on, the Fair and Decent everyone is equal social democratic paradise of New Zealand is discriminating against somebody because he's FAT? Say it ain't so, Joe!

Or better still, claim that's it's perfectly reasonable when NZ does it.

[mistermack]

Hang on, the Fair and Decent everyone is equal social democratic paradise of New Zealand is discriminating against somebody because he's FAT? Say it ain't so, Joe!

Or better still, claim that's it's perfectly reasonable when NZ does it.

Yes. And it's perfectly fair. He's not just fat, he's foreign. They have no obligation to let him stay.
If he's likely to be a burden on the state, they have the right to not renew his work permit.
And he is highly likely to make claims on the health service, as he is obese.

But morally, having let him stay five years, I would say that they ought to give him a chance to lose the weight, before showing him the door.

[Seth]

Hang on, the Fair and Decent everyone is equal social democratic paradise of New Zealand is discriminating against somebody because he's FAT? Say it ain't so, Joe!

Or better still, claim that's it's perfectly reasonable when NZ does it.

Yes. And it's perfectly fair. He's not just fat, he's foreign. They have no obligation to let him stay.
If he's likely to be a burden on the state, they have the right to not renew his work permit.
And he is highly likely to make claims on the health service, as he is obese.

But morally, having let him stay five years, I would say that they ought to give him a chance to lose the weight, before showing him the door.

I don't suppose that the Socialist Utopia of New Zealand bothered to analyze how much wealth his presence in the country has GENERATED in the time he's been there. It's likely that he's generated more revenues and economy stimulating than many other people, probably enough to pay for any medical care he might need.

Socialist fucks just used him till they got tired of him, now they are making him an "obesity refugee."

Hypocritical fuckwits.

[Hermit]

Hang on, the Fair and Decent everyone is equal social democratic paradise of New Zealand is discriminating against somebody because he's FAT? Say it ain't so, Joe!

Or better still, claim that's it's perfectly reasonable when NZ does it.

Yes. And it's perfectly fair. He's not just fat, he's foreign. They have no obligation to let him stay.
If he's likely to be a burden on the state, they have the right to not renew his work permit.
And he is highly likely to make claims on the health service, as he is obese.

But morally, having let him stay five years, I would say that they ought to give him a chance to lose the weight, before showing him the door.

I don't suppose that the Socialist Utopia of New Zealand bothered to analyze how much wealth his presence in the country has GENERATED in the time he's been there. It's likely that he's generated more revenues and economy stimulating than many other people, probably enough to pay for any medical care he might need.

Socialist fucks just used him till they got tired of him, now they are making him an "obesity refugee."

Hypocritical fuckwits.

He is in NZ (a) by virtue of a working visa, and (b) a condition of it being that it is reviewed on an annual basis. He knew that when he applied for one. Any libertarian worth his salt would have noticed that he agreed with those terms of entry into the country before his arrival in New Zealand, and having agreed, he'll have to abide by them. Sucks to take a libertarian viewpoint when a situation doesn't fit your views, aye? Time to obfuscate, aye?

[JimC]

Seth

The phrase is TANSTAAFL. Try to pay attention.

Re Pacific Islanders etc.
Many of them have a special arrangement with NZ. Samoans, Rarotongans, Niueans, Tokelauans all have automatic access to NZ. So the normal immigration rules do not apply. Yes, plenty of them are seriously over-weight. I read somewhere that Polynesians have a minor genetic difference that causes them to conserve fat more efficiently than Europeans. So their excess weight is not entirely their own fault.

The other thing is, it's also cultural. The Tongans and Samoans (and possibly some of the others) reify hugeness!

More likely the result of adopting some of the worst aspects of a western diet, involving fat and sugar, that were not a normal part of their island existence in the past...

[Hermit]

The other thing is, it's also cultural. The Tongans and Samoans (and possibly some of the others) reify hugeness!

More likely the result of adopting some of the worst aspects of a western diet, involving fat and sugar, that were not a normal part of their island existence in the past...

It's a combination of both factors, JimC, as well as an economic one.

The factors for this epidemic of obesity are a dramatic decrease in physical activity and a dependence on a Western diet. The traditional foods of the islands such as fresh fish, meat and local fruits and vegetables have been replaced by rice, sugar, flour, canned meats, canned fruits and vegetables, soft drinks and beer.

Culturally, large physical size is considered a mark of beauty and social status in many Pacific Island countries. At the community and policy making level, there is resistance to the view that obesity is a health problem. Generally, Pacific Islanders have larger frames and more muscle than Asians and Europeans, so the challenge for the Pacific Islanders becomes understanding the difference between being big as a result of hereditary factors versus as a result of overeating. Complicating the task for health officials and policy proponents is the common attitude among Pacific Islanders that obesity traditionally has been a sign of high social position and wealth (Ringrose and Zimmet, 1979, p. 1340). Since a high value was placed on a well- fed person, a commitment was made to prepare large quantities of foods for the traditional leaders and great effort was required to feed them (Pollock, 1992).

Like the Nauruans, the people of the Polynesian country of Tonga suffer from high rates of diabetes, high blood pressure and heart disease. In a study of diet and health in Tonga, Evans, Sinclair, Fusimalohi and Liava’a found that a “poor diet is not simply a health or health-related issue, it is also economic” (2001, p. 857). Respondents were asked to rate certain foods, both traditional and imported. Even though traditional foods were reported to be preferred over such foods as mutton flaps, bread and imported chicken parts, the study participants continued to eat the less desirable foods at a higher rate. The indication was that “preference has little to do with consumption patterns” (Evans et al. , 2001, p. 857). The analysis indicated a “considerable sophistication and awareness” of the importance of good nutrition and a “relatively accurate perception of the nutritional value of the foods they consume.” These perceptions, however, have not reduced their appetite for imported fatty foods (Evans et al. , 2001, p. 858). Despite the success of education programs in increasing awareness of what nutritional foods contribute to a healthy diet, Pacific Islanders nonetheless choose to eat foods with “dubious” nutritional value because of cost and availability. In other words, “they make economically rational, but nutritionally detrimental decisions to consume certain foods” (Evans et al. , 2001, pp. 856-7)

From The Obesity Epidemic in the Pacific Islands by Michael Curtis, United States Department of Army in Journal of Development and Social Transformation, pp 37 & 39

[Seth]

Hang on, the Fair and Decent everyone is equal social democratic paradise of New Zealand is discriminating against somebody because he's FAT? Say it ain't so, Joe!

Or better still, claim that's it's perfectly reasonable when NZ does it.

Yes. And it's perfectly fair. He's not just fat, he's foreign. They have no obligation to let him stay.
If he's likely to be a burden on the state, they have the right to not renew his work permit.
And he is highly likely to make claims on the health service, as he is obese.

But morally, having let him stay five years, I would say that they ought to give him a chance to lose the weight, before showing him the door.

I don't suppose that the Socialist Utopia of New Zealand bothered to analyze how much wealth his presence in the country has GENERATED in the time he's been there. It's likely that he's generated more revenues and economy stimulating than many other people, probably enough to pay for any medical care he might need.

Socialist fucks just used him till they got tired of him, now they are making him an "obesity refugee."

Hypocritical fuckwits.

He is in NZ (a) by virtue of a working visa, and (b) a condition of it being that it is reviewed on an annual basis. He knew that when he applied for one. Any libertarian worth his salt would have noticed that he agreed with those terms of entry into the country before his arrival in New Zealand, and having agreed, he'll have to abide by them. Sucks to take a libertarian viewpoint when a situation doesn't fit your views, aye? Time to obfuscate, aye?

"Being of a particular body-fat content" was not one of the conditions of his visa. They admitted him to the country and have been doing so for decades. For them to now suddenly decide he's not welcome is a violation of the contract they made with him by admitting him. Further it seems they are creating a new "body-fat content" requirement that applies ONLY to him, which is grossly discriminatory. I see no evidence of legislation by the elected legislature making "body-fat content" a condition of entry to NZ.

Obviously some bigoted anti-fat pricks decided they didn't like the look of him and think he doesn't fit the "image" they want to convey, and because he's there on a visa they are going to hammer him, destroy his career, destroy his business, harm his customers and demonstrate just what a bunch of fuckwits NZ bureaucrats really are, all while ignoring every other fat person in the country, including their own fat fuckers whom they cannot deport...yet.

As I said, it's an artifact of socialized medicine. When the government takes financial responsibility for your health, it gains complete power and control over your personal life and activities in order to limit its exposure to financial liability.

And that's one of the best reasons to eschew socialized medicine that there is.

[Coito ergo sum]

To Seth

Re socialised health care.

There was a recent article in New Scientist criticising the health care system in the USA. Health care per head costs twice as much per person in the USA as in countries like Britain, Australia, and NZ and overall is less effective. Heaps of people in the USA fall between the cracks and get pretty much zero health care at all.

This just is not true. The health care in the US is not less effective. Look at how that study measured "effectiveness." Bollocks across the board.

Your "non socialised" system is a load of cobblers. Give me the efficiencies and greater care of our socialised system any day.

Most socialized medicine systems in existence in the world today are far worse than the US's system. There are good examples of socialized medicine, but they aren't the norm.