Greece - predictions

[Clinton Huxley]

From the Guardian.....

Arriving for the G20 summit in Mexico, Italian prime minister Mario Monti said: "This allows us to have a more serene vision for the future of the European Union and for the eurozone," he told reporters.

Serene?! Wel'll be lucky if the speculators give Greece and the EU more than a weeks grace before coming in for some more flesh. The Grexit is still on.

[Rum]

Sack the interpreter. He probably said the equivalent of 'frenzied' in Italian.

[Clinton Huxley]

I guess Europe's bazookas just aren't big enough.

[klr]

That was a convenient victory.

A cynic might say that a vote narrowly in favour of austerity is the result that was going to occur, regardless of the actual votes. Eurogeddon averted for a few weeks.

Someone on this forum will be very disappointed.

[Tyrannical]

That Golden Dawn member that slapped the Communist turned out to be a good thing and won them a few more votes

[Svartalf]

I predict an invasion by Turkey.

I predict an invasion of Turkey, nothing like a broke country invading one with vastly superior forces to distract the populace about being broke

Unlikely... Nobody in the gummint is that crazy, they'd get their rears handed to them if they invaded Turkey... Armed forces in Greece are comparable to Turkish in numbers, but if they are stupid enough to give the Turks the home ground advantage and to burder themselves with the logistic of it, they are gonna lose bad... plus, given that there is a large Turkish lobby in Germany, and that we have a milksop for a president, the Greeks would find themselves hung out to dry.

[Tyrannical]

I predict an invasion by Turkey.

I predict an invasion of Turkey, nothing like a broke country invading one with vastly superior forces to distract the populace about being broke

Unlikely... Nobody in the gummint is that crazy, they'd get their rears handed to them if they invaded Turkey... Armed forces in Greece are comparable to Turkish in numbers, but if they are stupid enough to give the Turks the home ground advantage and to burder themselves with the logistic of it, they are gonna lose bad... plus, given that there is a large Turkish lobby in Germany, and that we have a milksop for a president, the Greeks would find themselves hung out to dry.

Now is not the time to think about liberating Constantinople from the Muslims. Maybe someday though

[Svartalf]

If we could just launch a crusade to liberate Asia Minor for Christianity...

[klr]

If we could just launch a crusade to liberate Asia Minor for Christianity...

It didn't work the first time ...

or the second ...

or the ... well, you know.

[Coito ergo sum]

If we could just launch a crusade to liberate Asia Minor for Christianity...

It didn't work the first time ...

or the second ...

or the ... well, you know.

Well, the first time, it actually did work, as Asia Minor was officially Christian from the Fourth Century to about the 15th. What the Christians weren't able to do was keep the Muslim forces out. Starting in the 7th century, Arabia became Muslim and they started expanding out, encroaching on the Christian lands in Palestine, North Africa, etc. The Byzantines remained in Constantinople, and held on to an empire of lesser and greater extents over the centuries, but the Muslim forces eventually held sway.

The Muslims made the first invasions into Europe, heading through Bulgaria and the Balkans and also cutting through North Africa, and encroaching on Sicily and into Spain, and even into France. It took Charles "the Hammer" Martel, to stop the Muslim advance at Tours.

In context, the Crusades came late in the game, starting after the year 1000 with the first Crusade, which was an attempt to boot the encroaching Muslims from various lands that had been Christian for centuries. The Crusades were largely a response to Muslim aggression.

[Clinton Huxley]

The Crusades were largely a response to Muslim aggression.

I think there were a few more drivers than that - adventurism by the younger sons of the Normal elite, for example, wanting to carve themselves out kingdoms in the East.

Venice, of course, always had its own agenda.

[Coito ergo sum]

The Crusades were largely a response to Muslim aggression.

I think there were a few more drivers than that - adventurism by the younger sons of the Normal elite, for example, wanting to carve themselves out kingdoms in the East.

Venice, of course, always had its own agenda.

I'm sure there was that.

However, what gets sort of assumed in the whole discussion of the Crusades, is that the Muslims had some sort of primary right to hegemony over the "Holy Land," and that Christians and Jews are either squatting or stealing. I think that forgets the basic fact that Islam didn't even exist until the 7th century, and the lands that we call "Muslim" lands now were primarily Christian from the time of Constantine on, and over time the Muslims chipped away at it.

[Svartalf]

If we could just launch a crusade to liberate Asia Minor for Christianity...

It didn't work the first time ...

or the second ...

or the ... well, you know.

But God had not seen fit to give us the power to splint or fuse the mighty Atom back then...

[Clinton Huxley]

The Crusades were largely a response to Muslim aggression.

I think there were a few more drivers than that - adventurism by the younger sons of the Normal elite, for example, wanting to carve themselves out kingdoms in the East.

Venice, of course, always had its own agenda.

I'm sure there was that.

However, what gets sort of assumed in the whole discussion of the Crusades, is that the Muslims had some sort of primary right to hegemony over the "Holy Land," and that Christians and Jews are either squatting or stealing. I think that forgets the basic fact that Islam didn't even exist until the 7th century, and the lands that we call "Muslim" lands now were primarily Christian from the time of Constantine on, and over time the Muslims chipped away at it.

Just started reading Simon Sebag Montefiore's Jerusalem. I'm only up to the 4th century BC and all the internecine squabbling is giving me a headache already.

[JimC]

Is it time for Merkel to state that she has no more territorial ambitions in Europe?