Attitudes towards the police

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:18 pm

Lozzer wrote:The police are possibility the most resented bunch of public servicemen in modern times. To the press and layman, they seem to be incapable of doing anything right. They're hated when they're doing something right, and then they're despised when they do something wrong. They can't do anything without being criticized.

My friends are always telling me of their encounters with the police, none of them positive experiences. I've been out in town before and I've been taken aside and told not to look at the officers in the eye. I've heard stories of beatings, interferences and other abuses of the law said officials have taken. I'm not sure what to believe, if only because my father is a police officer. I consider them an necessary tool of the state, and vital observers in keeping order. They have a job to do.
Some do their job within the law. Some are jerks.
Lozzer wrote:
And yet, everyone is terrified of them. I'm torn between what I've been told, and what I know. Why is the public perception of police officers so negative? In most instances where someone has complained to me about police corruption, they've proceeded to snort Cocaine or to get rowdy in a pub.
I've never been afraid of the police, not in the least.

In the US, the public perception of police, I think, is generally positive.

I've run into some stupid ones, but generally if one behaves in a reasonable, respectful fashion, one is treated accordingly.

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Pappa » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:27 pm

I've had both good and bad dealings with the police. In my experience, most ordinary PCs are ok, with some notable exceptions. I've yet to meet a nice riot policeman.
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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Thinking Aloud » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:28 pm

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Meekychuppet » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:30 pm

Rum wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Rum wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:I resent the UK police because they are fucking useless. One statistic I was shocked to learn was that there have been 1000 recorded deaths in police custody in the UK. Number of prosecutions? Zero.

The police are as corrupt as it gets.
What do you base this rather breathtaking generalisation on?!
Aside from my my personal experience.

Stephen Lawrence
Ian Tomlinson
Jean Charles de Menezez
Guildford Four
Birmingham Six
Derek Bentley
Ten Rillington Place
Oluwashijibomi Lapite
Richard O'Brien

Those are just the names I can roll off the top of my head.
Your point? The job of the police is to maintain the current definition of whatever law and order happens to be - and sure they are about social control. That social function aside, what they do has a violent element to it. They deal with the worst behaviour in society.

In 2005-6 1,429,800 people were arrested in this country. If you take your list that is 0.000559519%, actually rather fewer than dropped dead waiting for a bus...and yours were over several years and high profile.

I am not defending the police. Far from it. I was interrogated once on suspicion of running an LSD factory (I wasn't by the way) and it scared the shit out of me. My point is that it is easy and a bit lazy to think of them as the 'pigs' and the 'fuzz', as protectors of the property of the rich, which they may be, but they do far more than that. I have experience of a more positive side of them too.


It is too easy and glib to dismiss the police as corrupt and 'bad' and not view them in a functional context.
Bollocks. First of all the comparison to bus deaths is not an analogue so that is completely irrelevant. It's the fact that in every case there was an innocent civilian killed by a police officer. You should be thoroughly ashamed of arguing for an acceptable margin of error/collateral damage in terms of people murdered in police custody. How many have to die before it does become an issue? How many police officers can civilians murder and justify it as a statistical insignificance?

Secondly, I know of several innocent friends who spent time in police custody and every one of them got the shit kicked out of them by the officers on duty. That suggests to me that for every one caught many are not, and let's not forget that the police are like the BMA and suchlike - without a smoking gun they are untouchable, and even with damning evidence you still can't get the bastards. It's fairly clear that for every officer caught and convicted of wrongdoing many, many more are not.

It is now illegal to film or photograph a UK police officer, and during the G20 protests they removed identification epolets and serial numbers. We all know why - so they can kick the shit out of people with impunity, and without fear of prosecution.

A work colleague of mine had her brother die on the floor of a police station. There were 5 officers watching him on the floor, handcuffed, unable to breathe. They told the station commander he was acting as he gurgled his last breaths. How do I know? Because it's all on camera - and they STILL got away with. There wasn't even a trial. They watched a human being asphyxiate to death over the course of several minutes and they did nothing. It's on film. Can you tell me if ANYONE else on Earth would have got away with that? Would they bollocks.

I don't give a flying fuck how tough the job is. If they can't do it without beating people, killing suspects and violating the rights of those in their care then the place for them is prison, and the force is in need of reform.
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Rum » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:56 pm

Meeky, Every time you get into a discussion where there isn't consensus and people have to argue their corner you immediately up the ante. I have noticed this many times and therefore I am not going to respond to a post of mine which begins with 'bollocks'.

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Meekychuppet » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:21 pm

Rum wrote:Meeky, Every time you get into a discussion where there isn't consensus and people have to argue their corner you immediately up the ante. I have noticed this many times and therefore I am not going to respond to a post of mine which begins with 'bollocks'.
What is upping the ante?
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Cunt » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:25 pm

Psychoserenity wrote:As far as I'm concerned, they are the to help me.
Bollocks.

Or, said a little more civilly, you are so woefully misinformed that it would be best for you if upon arrest you were struck dumb.
Don't believe it? Ask a lawyer...
They are most certainly NOT there to help you.

Rum wrote:Meeky, Every time you get into a discussion where there isn't consensus and people have to argue their corner you immediately up the ante. I have noticed this many times and therefore I am not going to respond to a post of mine which begins with 'bollocks'.
Well, bow out if you wish, but I won't say what you said is bullocks, I will simply say that with the whole force being a mix of ethical and unethical, it seems about normal. Trouble is, when a cop is unethical, there is MUCH less incentive for the police to act on it.
If seeing a cop arrest someone, apparantly a bit too roughly, would you pop out your video-camera and document the events? Would you be scared?

The police can have terrific members, but if those terrific members don't address the corruption we can ALL find with a quick browse, they aren't so terrific to me.

Someone once pointed out that any law not effectively enforced weakens all other laws. The police are very selective in their enforcement. Case in point are domestic disputes. Often a cop who knows what he could learn in five minutes chooses to arrest only one of the participants and the other gets a warm tea and an understanding pat on the shoulder. The funny thing is, the police aren't supposed to be deciding. Rather than doing the fair thing and arresting both, allowing a judge to find out who was guilty they are picking sides and quite often the wrong sides.

Fuck, one could go on forever about how fucked up they are, but just look at that new law against filming the police that another poster referred to.

Why would they fear video of their actions unless those actions were something shameful?
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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Cunt » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:28 pm

Rum wrote:Meeky, Every time you get into a discussion where there isn't consensus and people have to argue their corner you immediately up the ante. I have noticed this many times and therefore I am not going to respond to a post of mine which begins with 'bollocks'.
By the way, Rum, this looks a bit like addressing something about this poster rather than addressing his arguments. Isn't there a latin name for that? Something about misuse of logic...just sayin... 8-)
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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:16 pm

Cunt wrote:
Psychoserenity wrote:As far as I'm concerned, they are the to help me.
Bollocks.

Or, said a little more civilly, you are so woefully misinformed that it would be best for you if upon arrest you were struck dumb.
Don't believe it? Ask a lawyer...


They are most certainly NOT there to help you.
Well, this, of course, is quite correct. If you are being investigated or questioned by police, you must be very careful. Generally, don't say anything to them.
Cunt wrote:
Rum wrote:Meeky, Every time you get into a discussion where there isn't consensus and people have to argue their corner you immediately up the ante. I have noticed this many times and therefore I am not going to respond to a post of mine which begins with 'bollocks'.
Well, bow out if you wish, but I won't say what you said is bullocks, I will simply say that with the whole force being a mix of ethical and unethical, it seems about normal. Trouble is, when a cop is unethical, there is MUCH less incentive for the police to act on it.
If seeing a cop arrest someone, apparantly a bit too roughly, would you pop out your video-camera and document the events? Would you be scared?
There is good reason to be cautious when dealing with police. Generally, do not put yourself in a position, if you can help it, where a bad one can set you up.
Cunt wrote:

Why would they fear video of their actions unless those actions were something shameful?
Most police in the US now have video cameras in their cars, and they turn them on during stops.

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Posse Comitatus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:34 pm

I love the Police. At least they put fucking Scargill in his place.

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:36 pm

"If you don't like the pigs, next time you're trouble, yell for a hippie."
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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by sandinista » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:45 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:"If you don't like the pigs, next time you're trouble, yell for a hippie."
Why? You'd find yourself equally as annoyed...guess the hippie wouldn't throw you in prison for growing a plant though.
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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Tigger » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:48 pm

sandinista wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:"If you don't like the pigs, next time you're trouble, yell for a hippie."
Why? You'd find yourself equally as annoyed...guess the hippie wouldn't throw you in prison for growing a plant though.
Don't grow the plant; don't go to prison.
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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:52 pm

sandinista wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:"If you don't like the pigs, next time you're trouble, yell for a hippie."
Why? You'd find yourself equally as annoyed...guess the hippie wouldn't throw you in prison for growing a plant though.
Smoking that plant is bad for you though.....don't whine about being denied the freedom to do unhealthy things....lol :drunk:

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Re: Attitudes towards the police

Post by Meekychuppet » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:56 pm

Tigger wrote:
sandinista wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:"If you don't like the pigs, next time you're trouble, yell for a hippie."
Why? You'd find yourself equally as annoyed...guess the hippie wouldn't throw you in prison for growing a plant though.
Don't grow the plant; don't go to prison.
You're kidding right?
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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