What if the US did nothing?

[Hermit]

Hey everyone, don't forget this sight is hosted in Britain...

Pity it's too easy to lose site of that.

Education, peace, and understanding are the solution.

Yes indeed!

[Blind groper]

To Seth

Before you start responding, can I ask you, please, to read my post right through, and respond to it in its entirety, instead of piece by piece?

There is, of course, no "solution" to the 'Muslim problem'. Neither militant action, nor peace, love and understanding will 'solve' this problem. The only thing that will do it is time and social evolution (which takes time).

However, there is no point making things worse by giving Muslims reason to hate the west. We can mitigate things by providing Muslims reasons to respect the west. That is, by pressuring Israel into a creation of a sovereign Palestine. By providing aid and assistance to Muslim nations where that is appropriate.

We do not need to provide support for those Muslims who are destructively militant. We need to make sure that those people get the very firm message that their nastiness is not acceptable. One way to do this, is to insert undercover agents to learn what is going on, and take targeted action against the villains of the piece. Treat Al Qaeda and its allies the same way we treat the mafia. As criminals and murderers, not as Muslims.

But we need to remember that the vast majority of Muslims, regardless of ideas about global caliphates and other nonsense, are not interested in terrorist activities, or going to war, or hurting people. All Muslims, except a small minority, are just as basically decent as Christians or non believers.

Since social evoluton is the only cure for the situation, extreme measures like going to war are not appropriate.

[piscator]

Yeah. People are people. And you know, axe murderers only axe murder during statistically small periods of their lives. Chopchop. What's that compared to a 77-year lifespan? So it's simple - just don't aggravate axe murderers. Or Russians, or Muslims.
Security through obscurity. That's the key.

[Blind groper]

Don't be stupid Piscator.

Muslim terrorists are terrorists for only a small part of their lives, too. That is a very different thing to claiming all Muslims are terrorists. The vast majority of Muslims want nothing to do with terrorism or terrorists, at any stage in their lives.


Sheeesh!

[Seth]

To Seth

Before you start responding, can I ask you, please, to read my post right through, and respond to it in its entirety, instead of piece by piece?

You can ask, but I regretfully decline. That's not how I work.

There is, of course, no "solution" to the 'Muslim problem'. Neither militant action, nor peace, love and understanding will 'solve' this problem. The only thing that will do it is time and social evolution (which takes time).

And in the meantime we're supposed to do what, exactly?

However, there is no point making things worse by giving Muslims reason to hate the west.

They don't need a reason, they hate the West because it's not Muslim nor are its people subjugated in Dhimmitude. Mohammad told them to hate us for those reasons.

We can mitigate things by providing Muslims reasons to respect the west.

Fuck Muslims. I'm not doing anything to "mitigate" their hostile, insane, aggressive, murderous, arrogant behavior. They are wrong, it's just that simple, and nobody needs to tolerate them for one second when they decide to use force to impose their religious beliefs on others.

That is, by pressuring Israel into a creation of a sovereign Palestine.

Tried that, didn't work. Israel was attacked with the intention of slaughtering every Jew and Israel cleaned their enemy's clock big time. The land they took is theirs by the right of self-defense. They were attacked, they won, sucks to be a Muslim Arab I guess because they don't own the land anymore, they lost it by initiating force on Israel.

By providing aid and assistance to Muslim nations where that is appropriate.

We do not need to provide support for those Muslims who are destructively militant.

Well, unless you consider a Hellfire up their ass to be "support."

We need to make sure that those people get the very firm message that their nastiness is not acceptable. One way to do this, is to insert undercover agents to learn what is going on, and take targeted action against the villains of the piece. Treat Al Qaeda and its allies the same way we treat the mafia. As criminals and murderers, not as Muslims.

That's what we're doing. Killing them. Look what happens when we lock them up in prison...a bunch of other Muslim militants get together, raid the prison and release them all. The only sure solution to violent radical Islam is to kill them like the cockroaches that they are, wherever they are found to be hiding, because there will NEVER be peace between radical Islam and the West because Mohammed forbids such a peace.

But we need to remember that the vast majority of Muslims, regardless of ideas about global caliphates and other nonsense, are not interested in terrorist activities, or going to war, or hurting people. All Muslims, except a small minority, are just as basically decent as Christians or non believers.

I'm not at all convinced of that, given the fact that the Koran explicitly authorizes Muslims to lie to Infidels and the acute lack of outrage and protest on the part of "peace-loving Muslims" at the acts of radicals who, if you are correct, are themselves violating the Koran and therefore are heretics and apostates to the "true" Muslim religion. If that is actually true, then non-radical Muslims all over the planet should be taking up arms and killing off the apostates THEMSELVES.

Significantly, they aren't. More significantly they aren't even condemning the radicals with any sort of passion, they remain suspiciously silent which leads to the reasonable belief that they actually support the goal of radical Islam and are unwilling to criticize their brother Muslims in any concrete or effective way.

If they are truly peaceful Muslims then they need to reject radical Islam and all its members and actively participate in quashing this church-related apostasy. Let me know when the "peace-loving" Muslim world goes to war with Islamist radicals.

Since social evoluton is the only cure for the situation, extreme measures like going to war are not appropriate.

And you think it's appropriate to just ignore the matter and let them kill with impunity? Bah!

[Seth]

Don't be stupid Piscator.

Muslim terrorists are terrorists for only a small part of their lives, too.

Well, we need to fix that. We need to make sure that Muslim terrorists live their whole lives as terrorists...by killing them as soon as we discover they are terrorists.

That is a very different thing to claiming all Muslims are terrorists. The vast majority of Muslims want nothing to do with terrorism or terrorists, at any stage in their lives.

Coulda fooled me. But anyway nNbody has EVER said that all Muslims are terrorists. Just the terrorist ones...who need to be dead.

[mistermack]

Kosovo.

I have to say that the US did do a good job in Kosovo. Not that it makes up for Vietnam. But still, it is one positive result.

[piscator]

Kosovo.

I have to say that the US did do a good job in Kosovo. Not that it makes up for Vietnam. But still, it is one positive result.

Tokyo. We did a good job there too. And the Russians didn't do all the heavy lifting.

[Blind groper]

One big difference relating to Kosovo is that was not a USA project. It was a NATO project. You see, with more sensible nations guiding them, even Americans can do good.

[Ian]

One big difference relating to Kosovo is that was not a USA project. It was a NATO project. You see, with more sensible nations guiding them, even Americans can do good.

I think Libya proved that the rest of NATO is hardly capable of organizing and carrying out a bar mitzvah without US leadership.

[Seth]

One big difference relating to Kosovo is that was not a USA project. It was a NATO project. You see, with more sensible nations guiding them, even Americans can do good.

I think Libya proved that the rest of NATO is hardly capable of organizing and carrying out a bar mitzvah without US leadership.

Ain't that the ever-loving truth. Why the FUCK is Obama even considering expending one round of ammunition in Syria? We should sit this one out and let the rest of NATO go play soldier.

[piscator]

One big difference relating to Kosovo is that was not a USA project. It was a NATO project. You see, with more sensible nations guiding them, even Americans can do good.

I think Libya proved that the rest of NATO is hardly capable of organizing and carrying out a bar mitzvah without US leadership.

Ain't that the ever-loving truth. Why the FUCK is Obama even considering expending one round of ammunition in Syria? We should sit this one out and let the rest of NATO go play soldier.

Every time we try to sit one out it turns into a friggin' World War and we get attacked anyway.

[Seth]

One big difference relating to Kosovo is that was not a USA project. It was a NATO project. You see, with more sensible nations guiding them, even Americans can do good.

I think Libya proved that the rest of NATO is hardly capable of organizing and carrying out a bar mitzvah without US leadership.

Ain't that the ever-loving truth. Why the FUCK is Obama even considering expending one round of ammunition in Syria? We should sit this one out and let the rest of NATO go play soldier.

Every time we try to sit one out it turns into a friggin' World War and we get attacked anyway.

Er, not really. We weren't attacked in WWI, and the Japanese attack in WWII was a side-bet used as an excuse to enter the fray in Europe and the Pacific.

Everything else has been at worst a regional or local matter we chose to engage for purely political reasons.

I really don't give a fuck if the Syrians kill each other off with nerve gas. I'd be perfectly happy to supply the rebels with nerve gas weapons so they could shoot them at the Assad forces. Let's let that play out as it will, because the best case scenario for the rest of the planet is for radical Muslims of every stripe to kill each other off completely. Let's foment and perpetuate the Sunni/Shiite divide and keep them fighting each other to the death, because while they are busy doing that they have less time to fuck with the rest of us and in the end there will be fewer of both and even more generational animosity between them, which will keep them focused on killing each other for another thousand years or two, which is good for everyone else.

WTF do you think we were doing in Iraq and Iran during their long-term war? It's too bad we couldn't keep that conflict going because it was soon after it ended that the fuckers in charge turned their attention to the rest of the planet.

[Blind groper]

That is a sad and unfortunate attitude, Seth. I hope and trust that few other Americans feel that way. It is a bit like saying that, because the mafia originated in Sicily, we should destroy every Sicilian.

As I said before, most Muslims are not terrorists, or even willing to cause harm to non Muslims. Most of them are just people, and deserve the respect and consideration we should give to humans everywhere.

[mistermack]

Tokyo. We did a good job there too. And the Russians didn't do all the heavy lifting.

As I've already pointed out, the thread is about US foreign policy SINCE ww2.

And anyway, Tokyo wasn't a choice that the US made.
And I find it disgusting, that they didn't string the Emperor up, immediately. Instead, the top US brass were creeping around him and kow-towing like he was their god too.

He should have been hanging from a lamp post, within minutes of capture, like Musselini.