Restricting constitutional feeedoms.

[MrJonno]

Err why have an armed guard at a bank at all, its not like bank robbers ever really get away with it.

Police guide for what to do ie hand over the money, I believe some banks will actually sack staff for interfering with a robbery

http://members.traveltrust.co.uk/Portal ... retail.pdf

[Seth]

How is being prepared to defend oneself far worse?

True hell, leads to your so called 'law abiding citizen' getting his defence in first.

I certainly fucking hope so! Why should a law-abiding citizen have to wait until they have been injured or killed before they respond to an imminent attack? That's just plain stupidity. And our laws acknowledge just how stupid that would be by allowing citizens to use force in self defense based on their observations and the totality of the circumstances at the moment the crisis occurs. So long as their belief that they are in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury and that a lesser degree of force would be inadequate is "reasonable" in the total context of the situation, even if they kill someone who is not in fact intending them harm, they will be exonerated, and should be.

For example, a teenager out "punking" people in the dark uses a look-alike toy handgun to threaten passers-by just to give them a scare. If one of his victims shoots him dead because he reasonably feared he was about to be shot, it doesn't matter that the gun was a toy and he will be found not liable for the shooting. Indeed, it's a felony to use a look-alike toy to threaten someone, for fun or otherwise. It's called "felony menacing" and doing so justifies the use of deadly physical force by the victim.

The lesson here is "Don't threaten people and put them in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm, not even in jest, lest they pull out a gun and lawfully shoot you dead."

What's so fucking hard to remember about that?

[Seth]

Err why have an armed guard at a bank at all, its not like bank robbers ever really get away with it.

Police guide for what to do ie hand over the money, I believe some banks will actually sack staff for interfering with a robbery

http://members.traveltrust.co.uk/Portal ... retail.pdf

Actually, relatively few banks have armed guards these days because you're quite right, more than 98 percent of bank robbers are eventually caught. The current advice from the banking industry is to comply, hand over the money, and let the FBI take care of it.

Unfortunately, sometimes the bank robbers don't want just the money and they herd everyone into a back room and execute them to eliminate witnesses.

And that's when I begin shooting during a bank robbery, when someone tries to kill me or someone else. Until then, it's not my money, it's insured, and I'm going to play along until things go south. Then I'm going to do something.

[Seth]

Put your tinfoil hat back on.

As soon as you get your head out of your ass.

[Kristie]

Put your tinfoil hat back on.

As soon as you get your head out of your ass.

Oh, you must underestimate the size of my head or overestimate the size if my anus.

[Seth]

Never mind that a person not trained in threat response is much more likely to freeze-up, be unable to bring their weapon to bear before they're shot, or shoot innocent people before being shot themselves, than to actually pull a quick-draw and put a bullet through the forehead of the gunman in less than .75 seconds.

I suppose it's possible they could be out of danger and come running in, weapon already drawn and ready to fire. I still give them poor odds on actually hitting the gunman before they're killed unless they manage to take him by surprise. Perhaps waiting outside the schoolroom until he's done with all the kids in there and makes to leave.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how dedicated the individual is to their tactical training. I know a couple of teachers who used to be military special forces troopies who shoot every week or so like I do. I meet them at the range all the time. They are pretty frustrated that they are not allowed to carry weapons on campus because they are overqualified to do so.

At the very least, a couple of teachers taking shots at some teenager who is angry at the world is going to shift the focus of the killer from killing defenseless kids to trying to dodge bullets and defend himself against the teachers. So, the more the merrier, and every second the killer has to think about getting shot is a second for kids to get away or take cover.

School gunmen are not known for their steely-eyed iron resolution to fight to the last while bullets buzz around them. The vast majority of them commit suicide the INSTANT they meet any effective resistance or, as in the Connecticut (and Columbine) cases, the police show up and pose a threat to them.

It certainly couldn't have been any WORSE if a couple of teachers and administrators at Sandy Hook Elementary had been armed and had returned fire. Even supposing that there was someone shot by a school teacher by accident, the fact that engaging the shooter reduces his ability to shoot other children merely by snapping bullets by his head justifies the use of force and excuses other injuries that might occur in a firefight because the alternative is what we have seen, a deranged killer methodically killing unarmed children and adults for nearly ten minutes before anyone remotely capable of stopping him showed up on the scene, at which point he promptly shot himself in the head.

There are no guarantees in a gunfight, but the first rule of gunfighting is "bring a gun."

[Seth]

Put your tinfoil hat back on.

As soon as you get your head out of your ass.

Oh, you must underestimate the size of my head or overestimate the size if my anus.

No, I think not. I think I've got a pretty good estimation of the size of both and the degree of cranio-rectal inversion you're suffering from.

[Kristie]

Put your tinfoil hat back on.

As soon as you get your head out of your ass.

Oh, you must underestimate the size of my head or overestimate the size if my anus.

No, I think not. I think I've got a pretty good estimation of the size of both and the degree of cranio-rectal inversion you're suffering from.

Eww, maybe I should see a doctor then. I'll tell him some gun nut online said I had a problem.

[mozg]

Or that they don't even know what their state constitution says. I don't know what mine says.

That is easily rectified by obtaining a copy and reading it.

Here is a helpful link http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/inconst.html

You may want to think about how Section 32 in Article I aligns with your viewpoints on gun control.

Um, I know people in my state can bear arms.
You probably don't even know what my view point is.

I'm making an educated guess based upon your previous statements regarding your extreme dislike of firearms and the attitudes you have displayed toward the members of this forum who own them.

You are, of course, free to enlighten me as to what your actual viewpoint on firearm ownership is.

Please do. I'm interested in hearing the details.

[Kristie]

Eh, I've stated my opinions previously. If you're really interested, you can search.

[Jason]

School gunmen are not known for their steely-eyed iron resolution to fight to the last while bullets buzz around them. The vast majority of them commit suicide the INSTANT they meet any effective resistance or, as in the Connecticut (and Columbine) cases, the police show up and pose a threat to them.

I think it was more a case of being out of ammo, or nearly out, out of ready targets, and not wanting to be taken alive. Do you have any proof that these gunmen are such cowards that they'd surrender or flee if fired at?

[mozg]

Eh, I've stated my opinions previously. If you're really interested, you can search.

Then I will take that to mean your hatred of firearms and the people who own them are the impression you choose to leave me with.

[Jason]

She doesn't hate me!

At least as far as I know.

[Seth]

Put your tinfoil hat back on.

As soon as you get your head out of your ass.

Oh, you must underestimate the size of my head or overestimate the size if my anus.

No, I think not. I think I've got a pretty good estimation of the size of both and the degree of cranio-rectal inversion you're suffering from.

Eww, maybe I should see a doctor then. I'll tell him some gun nut online said I had a problem.

Speak up, he'll have trouble hearing you through your navel.

[Gallstones]

Never mind that a person not trained in threat response is much more likely to freeze-up, be unable to bring their weapon to bear before they're shot, or shoot innocent people before being shot themselves, than to actually pull a quick-draw and put a bullet through the forehead of the gunman in less than .75 seconds.

I suppose it's possible they could be out of danger and come running in, weapon already drawn and ready to fire. I still give them poor odds on actually hitting the gunman before they're killed unless they manage to take him by surprise. Perhaps waiting outside the schoolroom until he's done with all the kids in there and makes to leave.

Not everyone is of a temperament that they could do the job of course. Assign those who are.
If teachers or school admin then such persons should be volunteers--in that they come forward and nominate themselves--and they should undergo regular tactical training. If not in school personnel then create positions for professional security or sub contract law enforcement.

My county had a grant funded position in the high school for many years, we drew from the county police. One officer was assigned the position and he was on duty during as every other officer. Then the grant dried up.