Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by DaveDodo007 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:18 am

pErvin wrote:
Strontium Dog wrote:
Forty Two wrote:Now that Trump is President, I have no reason to think Wikileaks won't release dirt they get on his administration.
Funny how they didn't release any dirt on Trump before the election, even though he's probably the dirtiest candidate in American electoral history.

Anyway, the fullness of time, when nothing that could damage Trump is ever released, will prove you to be wrong.
It seems almost impossible to damage Trump, as the last 6 months of him saying and doing increasingly shocking things has shown. I'm not even certain that if paedophilia allegations against him were proven true that his supporters would repudiate him.
This is true as we on the right are just sick of lefty/liberals whole schtick. Pushing the narrative that anybody who has a different opinion to us is literally worse than Hitler is getting old real fast. Jesus Fucking Christ if you lefty/liberals don't pull back from your full on retardedness it wont be us conservatives you have to worry about. It will be full on Fascism, enough already.
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:51 am

Says the guy who supports a fascist (Putin).
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:26 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Forty Two wrote:Now that Trump is President, I have no reason to think Wikileaks won't release dirt they get on his administration.
Funny how they didn't release any dirt on Trump before the election, even though he's probably the dirtiest candidate in American electoral history.

Anyway, the fullness of time, when nothing that could damage Trump is ever released, will prove you to be wrong.
Odd that, given that wikileaks gained its fame by releasing documents regarding the Bush Administration, at which time it was the darling of the Democrats. I guess Julian Assange must have switched parties, or maybe he just loves Donald Trump so much.

It could very well be that Wikileaks specializes in leaking government documents and Trump wasn't in government. Now he is.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:28 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Sean Hayden wrote:
Forty Two wrote: am I really being blind to my own requirements having been satisfied?.
Maybe. I think one way you could be is by ignoring how odd it is that where one person will supposedly satisfy your requirements, the word of the CIA, FBI, NSA does not.
And Trump, who appeared to accept the report while disputing it's implications.
Sounds not unreasonable. One can accept the report and differ markedly on what conclusions to draw from it, given that the mainstream media seems to be lofting it as proof of Russian hacking and influence in election, when it doesn't appear that the report actually says that. One can accept the report "as far as it goes..." which is not very far, actually.
Fine, so Russia did the hacking, for the reasons stated, but it didn't make a difference so there's no need for concern?
The report doesn't really prove even that Russia did the hacking, does it?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:30 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Forty Two wrote:. . . If the person vouching just got done being exposed for lying to Congress about another intelligence issue, well, am I really being blind to my own requirements having been satisfied?
James Comey, the Director of the FBI, in testimony today stated that not only was the DNC hacked by the Russians, but also the RNC.
Comey also said that the Russians "got far deeper and wider into the (Democratic National Committee) than the RNC," adding that "similar techniques were used in both cases."

[source]
Is he lying, Forty Two?
I don't know. He's lied before. Intelligence agencies lie sometimes. More often than lying, they can and are sometimes wrong, albeit in good faith.

Have you seen evidence? I've been willing to credit the allegation, but I'm not going to just believe what they say on faith. I don't care who they allege was hacked.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:35 pm

pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:So, if this is actually the case does it make Wikileaks the unwitting pawn of the Kremlin, or at least make it complicit in undermining democratic processes?
How would revealing unethical and shady activity, and providing the voters with more information and insight into the behind the scenes activities of the DNC and the Clinton campaign, "undermine" democracy? Would democracy be better if we did not see what Podesta and Hlllary were up to? Would Democracy be better had we not found out that Donna Brazile gave Town Hall questions to Hillary Clinton in advance?

"Evidentiary value = 0" http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity ... ing-report
What the Russians did was undermining democracy. Selective hacking and release of information is not supporting the democratic process. But Wikileaks can't be complicit in it as their role isn't as independent media. Their role is in support of whistleblowers and secrecy busting. They owe nothing to any political process.
Which part of the report shows to you that Russia engaged in hacking?
Clapper said they did in front of Congress. You can claim he is lying (which you have essentially done), and that's fine. But if he is telling the truth, then what happened can never be understood to be 'in support of democracy'. If what they claim is true, then it was for the purposes of [undermining/supporting] one candidate in the election.
Clapper said that the intelligence they have says they did. He's lied to Congress' face before. I don't "claim" he's lying. I just don't know if he is or isn't, because they just want us to believe what they say without evidence.

I don't care if Russia supports democracy or not. Much of what Russia is being accused of "doing" is not hacking, but propaganda. That's not the same thing. If they're hacking, then the US government should be doing something about it. If they're doing something substantial, they haven't said so.

The "hacking" in the report sounds more like a phishing scam that Podesta fell for, or someone got ahold of a phone when left unattended. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell because the reports are painfully vague, nonspecific, and conflated with non-hacking activities.

And, look at the latest report - in "golden shower gate." It's absurd. Apparently, the intelligence services took a bunch of made-up shit seriously.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:36 pm

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Feck wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
pErvin wrote::funny: Well there you go. Authoritarianism FTW!
Desperate times call for desperate measures, only when we have crushed the lefty/liberal insanity can we again breathe true freedom and true liberty.
I think I would be impossible to reply to this and still obey the "play nice " rule
so i won't .... Dave you are a fucking cretin . Trisomy of chromosome 21 would be an improvement for you .
He wants to preserve Russian culture and its people, wasn't that the whole point of the Irish Nationalist uprising against us Brits? Is it only OK when you Irish do it?
How was Clinton a threat to Russian culture or its people?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:42 pm

pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Sean Hayden wrote:
Forty Two wrote:As I said previously, I'd be much more apt to give the report credence if someone said that evidence actual exists showing that Russia did it (even if they can't show the evidence).
:biggrin:
:lol:
The report did not explicitly state that the evidence of hacking exists. The boilerplate language is there, that the declassified report doesn't contain all the evidence that's in the classified report. But, the declassified report is almost exclusively (except less than one page dedicated to cyber-attack) related to propaganda and such, and Russia Today reporting. There is no indication that the super-secret evidence they have relates to hacking.
Oh ffs, he and I are facepalming you because Clapper put his name and reputation on the report by stating in front of congress that Russia hacked and interfered in the election. I.e. "if someone said that evidence actual [sic] exists showing that Russia did it (even if they can't show the evidence)".
"more apt" you dishonest fuck.

I didn't say i would believe anyone, and any allusion to there being more evidence. Clapper is a perjurer. He lied to Congress' face about the NSA data collection and explained it later as "clearly erroneous" and that he spoke in the "least untruthful" way he could. He fucking lied. So, someone who already lied to Congress doesn't have much of a reputation to stake when asking us to believe another intelligence matter.

Further, the statement needed to be quite clear. A vague statement that somewhere there is information that we can't disclose to you because of sources and methods is not good enough when it's not connected TO THE FUCKING HACKING. We have a report that relates mostly to things that ARE NOT HACKING, and then there is less than one page dedicated to "cyber espionage" and that less than one page DOES NOT SAY THAT RUSSIA HACKED ANYTHING. And, then there is at the top a boilerplate statement saying that we can't always show you everything because of sources and methods.

We still don't know if there is evidence that supports a Russia did hacking claim that they aren't disclosing us. The "undisclosed evidence" might relate to the overall efforts of Russia to influence American elections, which the report says at the outset is a long-standing, decades long, effort on their part.

And, when I say I would be "more apt" and that it would be more believable to me if someone clearly put their name and reputation to it I clearly explained that what that meant was someone was going to say that we ACTUALLY HAVE EVIDENCE THAT RUSSIA DID THE HACKING (or whatever they specifically did), and we can't show you because of sources and methods. Nobody did that.

So fuck off.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:53 pm

pErvin wrote:
You are doing again what you did in that other thread. You are mixing two separate issues, for what reason I don't know (none that I can think of are flattering to you). One issue is that Clapper and the CIA etc are lying. The issue you were talking about and I was responding to was someone "[putting] their name on it.... 'I put my reputation on it'." Clapper put his name and reputation on it. :fp:
Clapper's name isn't worth much, because of his previous perjury. I did not say that I would accept at face value anything anyone said that supported the report. It depends, of course, on exactly what they say. I asked you to look at what Clapper exactly said in support of the report. Speaking out "in support of" a report is different than saying that there is evidence that Russia did various incidents of hacking and we have evidence for it that I can tell you is clear and convincing, and we just can't show you because of sources and methods. First, someone needs to be very, very clear about that, and second, the person doing the vouching has to be credible. Why would I believe Clapper? He doesn't mind lying to Congress, and making the "least untruthful" statement possible.

I never said that all I need is someone, anyone, to vouch for the report, even in a vague, general way, and I'd accept it's conclusions hook, line and sinker. I said I would be "more apt" to credit the report if someone went on record and clearly said that Russia hacked and there was clear evidence of it which can't be disclosed because of security reasons. Nobody did that, not even Clapper, and Clapper doesn't have a great reputation to be vouching for stuff.
pErvin wrote:
But, hey, if you're convinced, you're convinced. Just at least don't pretend it's unreasonable to be skeptical here. You can't seriously be arguing that doubting what we've been told so far is unreasonable and deserving of a facepalm.
I'm facepalming your retarded "argument".
LOL - you're a funny person. A very, seriously, pathologically dishonest, but funny, person.
pErvin wrote:
Have you really been given enough information to believe that it's been proved, yet?
I never said it's been proved. Is it too much to ask that you could follow the actual debate?
All I've ever argued you piece of shit, is that I don't believe the report on faith, and I need to see the evidence which I have not seen. I.e., I've argue that it hasn't been proved. So go fuck yourself.

Is it "too much to ask that you could follow the actual debate?" You argue so dishonestly, that it's not even funny. This IS the actual debate, fuck nuts. That's what I've been arguing. It has not been proved. The intelligence reports don't prove that Russia did the hacking, and there is no reason, at this point, to believe the things that have not been substantiated.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:00 pm

Forty Two,

Settle down.

Brain
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:27 pm

pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Sean Hayden wrote:
Forty Two wrote:As I said previously, I'd be much more apt to give the report credence if someone said that evidence actual exists showing that Russia did it (even if they can't show the evidence).
:biggrin:
:lol:
The report did not explicitly state that the evidence of hacking exists. The boilerplate language is there, that the declassified report doesn't contain all the evidence that's in the classified report. But, the declassified report is almost exclusively (except less than one page dedicated to cyber-attack) related to propaganda and such, and Russia Today reporting. There is no indication that the super-secret evidence they have relates to hacking.
Oh ffs, he and I are facepalming you because Clapper put his name and reputation on the report by stating in front of congress that Russia hacked and interfered in the election. I.e. "if someone said that evidence actual [sic] exists showing that Russia did it (even if they can't show the evidence)".
And, I am facepalming you, because a perjurer putting his name to the truth of something is not generally a particularly strong "vouch."

Second, I've asked you to link to the transcript you're referring to, and we'll all see EXACTLY what Clapper said. His exact words are important. Go ahead, give us the exact words you're relying to say he "stated" that "Russia hacked and interfered."

Watch for the conflation of different activities - Clapper talked about Russia’s “multifaceted campaign” against the U.S. He said, for example, that RT, which is funded by the Russian government was “very, vert active in promoting a particular point of view, disparaging our system, our alleged hypocrisy about human rights, etc.” Now, I'd like you to direct me to the testimony of Mr. Clapper wherein he says that Russia hacked the DNC, or hacked computer systems involved in the election. Or, what other computer systems were hacked?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:41 pm

Forty Two wrote:
L'Emmerdeur wrote:Is he lying, Forty Two?
I don't know. He's lied before. Intelligence agencies lie sometimes. More often than lying, they can and are sometimes wrong, albeit in good faith.

Have you seen evidence? I've been willing to credit the allegation, but I'm not going to just believe what they say on faith. I don't care who they allege was hacked.
OK, please cite an example of Comey lying in a similar circumstance if you can, or any lie at all that you know he told.

As for evidence, I've repeatedly linked to evidence presented by private cyber-security firms, that you've repeatedly ignored. If you've been following this issue attentively you would be aware that the FBI examined some of that evidence and apparently found it credible and convincing.

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:13 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:Forty Two,

Settle down.

Brain
Image
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:20 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
L'Emmerdeur wrote:Is he lying, Forty Two?
I don't know. He's lied before. Intelligence agencies lie sometimes. More often than lying, they can and are sometimes wrong, albeit in good faith.

Have you seen evidence? I've been willing to credit the allegation, but I'm not going to just believe what they say on faith. I don't care who they allege was hacked.
OK, please cite an example of Comey lying in a similar circumstance if you can, or any lie at all that you know he told.

As for evidence, I've repeatedly linked to evidence presented by private cyber-security firms, that you've repeatedly ignored. If you've been following this issue attentively you would be aware that the FBI examined some of that evidence and apparently found it credible and convincing.
I'm sorry, I had Clapper in my head. I don't have an example of Comey lying.

The repeated links to evidence by the "private cyber security firm" has been addressed on the thread. I haven't ignored it. It doesn't prove Russia hacked anything. They suspect Russia, based on some methodological analysis, but there is no concrete evidence that Russia hacked the DNC.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Enjoy President Trump, Courtesy of The Kremlin

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:23 pm

Whatever the truth of the matter, Mr Trump is not garnering the trust of the US's many security and intelligence institutions. I wonder what'll happen when he starts distrusting Congress.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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