What if the US did nothing?

[Blind groper]

To Seth.

Yes, I have. I came across those ideas as a child, when I was reading about General Gordon's defense of Khartoum against the man who declared himself to be the Mahdi.

But more to the point, I am well aware of paranoid superstition. And reject it.

[Seth]

To Seth.

Yes, I have. I came across those ideas as a child, when I was reading about General Gordon's defense of Khartoum against the man who declared himself to be the Mahdi.

But more to the point, I am well aware of paranoid superstition. And reject it.

Do you understand that radical Islamists do not think it's paranoid superstition and do not reject it?

Do you understand that according to their religious beliefs the hidden Imam will only return when the world is "bathed in blood" of the infidels? Do you understand that radical Islamists are trying to trigger the return of the hidden Imam and to establish a worldwide Islamic Caliphate?

Evidently your head is too far in the sand to understand that just because YOU don't believe in religious superstitions doesn't mean other people don't, and that they are willing to kill and die in the service of those beliefs.

[Blind groper]

Seth

All this came from your statement that we would be speaking Farsi. How 'bout getting back to reality, instead of fantasizing about Muslims taking over the world. The answer is no. We will not be speaking Farsi, and there is no way that the Taliban, or Al Qaeda, or Afghanistan could ever get that strong.

Nor is there any sign that Muslim extremists will take over the world. They might have such fantasies, but it is not going to happen.

For one thing, most Muslims are not extremists. In fact, a sizeable proportion of all those who are Muslim have major aspirations about emulating we of the west. Based on the overwhelming trends we see throughout the world, it is predictable that Muslim peoples and nations will become more democratic and less warlike, in spite of your irrational paranoia.

[Seth]

Seth

All this came from your statement that we would be speaking Farsi. How 'bout getting back to reality, instead of fantasizing about Muslims taking over the world. The answer is no. We will not be speaking Farsi, and there is no way that the Taliban, or Al Qaeda, or Afghanistan could ever get that strong.

Strawman. I'm talking about radical Islam in toto.

Nor is there any sign that Muslim extremists will take over the world. They might have such fantasies, but it is not going to happen.

Let's hope not. But remember that Muslims think in terms of centuries and they've been reasonably successful lately in finding ways to advance Islam at the expense of everyone else...like by exporting Muslims to non-Muslim countries in large numbers...like France...and then fomenting civil unrest.

For one thing, most Muslims are not extremists.

But all Muslims are Muslims, and the Koran anticipates and advances the world Caliphate.

In fact, a sizeable proportion of all those who are Muslim have major aspirations about emulating we of the west. Based on the overwhelming trends we see throughout the world, it is predictable that Muslim peoples and nations will become more democratic and less warlike, in spite of your irrational paranoia.

Except it's not irrational because that's exactly what many Muslim extremists are working to prevent. They want blood and they want a global Caliphate and they are willing to kill to make it happen. Whether they are successful or not is a different question, but my point is that if they succeed in the UK or elsewhere, don't come begging the US for military assistance, we're going to let you stew in your own hypocrisy this time.

[laklak]

BG, the Hidden Imam isn't some hobgoblin tale to spook the Western public. It's a widely believed prophecy in the Mideast, and not just by extremists. Many of the most normal acting, westernized, well-educated, professional class Saudis, Bahrainis, Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians I worked with over there believed there was an old dude living down a well who would pop back up once Islam took over the world. They believe this stuff, in fact they believe ALL the horseshit - Mo riding a winged horse up to heaven, virgins in paradise, the whole fucking shebang. Doesn't matter that they were educated in the States or the UK, traveled the world, watched Western TV and drank Chivas Regal, they swallow it hook, line and sinker. If you think otherwise you're deluding yourself. Go live and work there for several years like I did. Not in some compound in Riyadh where the only people you see are Westerners, go live off the local economy, get to know them on a personal basis. Then come back and talk to me, otherwise you truly don't know what you're talking about.

[Seth]

BG, the Hidden Imam isn't some hobgoblin tale to spook the Western public. It's a widely believed prophecy in the Mideast, and not just by extremists. Many of the most normal acting, westernized, well-educated, professional class Saudis, Bahrainis, Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians I worked with over there believed there was an old dude living down a well who would pop back up once Islam took over the world. They believe this stuff, in fact they believe ALL the horseshit - Mo riding a winged horse up to heaven, virgins in paradise, the whole fucking shebang. Doesn't matter that they were educated in the States or the UK, traveled the world, watched Western TV and drank Chivas Regal, they swallow it hook, line and sinker. If you think otherwise you're deluding yourself. Go live and work there for several years like I did. Not in some compound in Riyadh where the only people you see are Westerners, go live off the local economy, get to know them on a personal basis. Then come back and talk to me, otherwise you truly don't know what you're talking about.

Thanks LakLak, some people just don't want to believe that Muslims want to take over the world. They do, and always have, since the very beginning. They just work the long game to get it done.

[laklak]

It's not simply that they want to take over, they honestly believe they're Chosen By Allah to do so, it's his will. Sure, they'll take what they like from the West, some of which conflicts with their religion, but when did a bit of cognitive dissonance ever stop anyone? Their eventual victory is a foregone conclusion, a fiat accompli, even if it isn't yet fully realized. They have no doubt they will eventually prevail, because we're weak and they're strong, and they've got Allah on their side. Now, I'm sure that not every muslim believes this, but I've met enough of them who do to convince me it's a frankly dangerous religion and a serious threat to world stability.

[Blind groper]

To Seth and Laklak

I am quite happy to accept that lots of Muslims believe that sort of garbage. But there is a big difference between believing in something and actually having it happen. The broad trend of historic change is moving in a different direction.

Just think of the idiotic things Christians have believed over the centuries, which never happened.

[laklak]

While it's true, BG, that everything the whackjob Christians believed didn't come to pass, enough of it did to make Christianity, in it's totality, a dangerous, anti-human threat. Witch burnings, inquisitions, auto de fe, the Crusades, the Northern Irish Troubles, the list is endless. Maybe the worst was the grinding, gray, miserable lives so many people led in obedience to their stupid book and psychotic church leaders. I certainly would not want to live through that, and I don't want to live through the World Caliphate. They don't give a shit about historical trends, means nothing to them. Look at what they're doing to one another now, FFS they're lobbing nerve gas at each other. Anyone who sees the Arab Spring as anything other than a no-holds-barred internal power struggle between equally odious totalitarian despots is naïve to the point of stupidity. Wanting us to all live in Peace and Brotherhood is a wonderful idea, but it's about as grounded in reality as the exact same ideas were back in the Summer of Love.

[Warren Dew]

I am quite happy to accept that lots of Muslims believe that sort of garbage. But there is a big difference between believing in something and actually having it happen.

Most muslims believe in it. The moderate muslims don't actively preach jihad to achieve it, but they don't actively oppose the extremists who do preach jihad to achieve it, either. The result is that the jihadists end up being the voice of Islam, which is a rapidly growing religion around the world.

Will they achieve it? Probably not. Can they cause a ton of trouble trying to achieve it? Absolutely.

[Seabass]

Maybe I'll be a Radical Muslim for halloween this year.

[Seth]

Maybe I'll be a Radical Muslim for halloween this year.

That would be blasphemy against the Prophet Mohammed (may his name be blessed) which could get you killed...

[Blind groper]

Can Muslims cause a tonne of trouble due to their idiotic beliefs? Of course they can. They do.

However, there is a big difference between minor terrorist acts, or even larger acts like 9/11, and forming a world caliphate. Muslims do not have the power to do the latter, and long before they could ever develop that power, the thrust of history will take them and us beyond that point.

As I said before, Christians had ridiculous ideas also, like colonising and converting the world. Christians had a level of political and military dominance that is way, way beyond anything the Muslims have or can get, and all those idiotic Christians failed miserably.

Muslim terrorism is a pain. The world caliphate is a paranoid delusion.

[Seth]

Can Muslims cause a tonne of trouble due to their idiotic beliefs? Of course they can. They do.

However, there is a big difference between minor terrorist acts, or even larger acts like 9/11, and forming a world caliphate. Muslims do not have the power to do the latter, and long before they could ever develop that power, the thrust of history will take them and us beyond that point.

That doesn't seem to be stopping them from trying, and therein lies the problem.

As I said before, Christians had ridiculous ideas also, like colonising and converting the world. Christians had a level of political and military dominance that is way, way beyond anything the Muslims have or can get, and all those idiotic Christians failed miserably.

So what? You want the Muslims to have their turn at fucking the world up now because it's "fair" to do so because some Christians fucked things up a thousand years ago? Give me a break.

Muslim terrorism is a pain. The world caliphate is a paranoid delusion.

I agree, but the delusional paranoids can still kill you as dead as a sane person. Just ask the folks in the Twin Towers who had to jump to their deaths or be burned alive about that.

[Tyrannical]

Hey everyone, don't forget this sight is hosted in Britain and we'd hate to run afoul of any hate crime laws.

Muslims are really wonderful friendly people that are just sometimes misunderstood. Education, peace, and understanding are the solution.