Do you hate Tony Blair?

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Do you hate Tony Blair?

Yes, I hate him.
9
39%
No, I dislike him, but below the hate level.
7
30%
No, I'm neutral, neither hate, dislike, like or love him.
3
13%
No, I like him alright.
4
17%
No, I love him - best Prime Minister Evah!
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 23

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Posse Comitatus
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:22 am

Everything Blair did was done without a national debate. All the anti-terrorism laws (that are now being used against everyone) were all brought in without any discussion or fuss.
Yes, well, other than three elections which each time met him with a resounding majority, despite at least one of the major opposition parties, the Lib Dems, making the issue of civil liberties basically the crux of their manifesto at least twice. Didn't work, because, by and large, and from canvassing experience, people really, really aren't bothered about civil liberties.

Even the attempted CL legislation that was just ludicrous- ie 42 days detention without charge, virtually all polls indicated a majority of the public remained in favour. If there wasn't much of a debate it was because the public was basically already decided- and as it happens fell on Blair's side of the argument.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by owtth » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:51 pm

Posse Comitatus wrote:
owtth wrote:It is a simple question, was he telling the truth or was he being economical with the truth?
Oh do change the record. It's really never been substantiated that Blair actually lied. What did he lie about exactly?
He lied about WMDs he lied about the war's legality and he lied to his own cabinet about his preparations for war.
At least I'm housebroken.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Tigger » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:21 pm

Tony Blair The Unmitigated Cunt wrote: "I would just point out to the hon. Lady that we returned the donation."
then ...
Tony Blair The Unmitigated Cunt wrote: "We have said that we will give the money back."
(http://www.labour-watch.com/blairlie.htm)

Easy to find the lies if you want to look for the truth rather than using your imagination, as vivid as it might be.
He didn't write it really, but I wanted to use the quotey thingy.
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by AnInconvenientScotsman » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:08 pm

I thought the whole point of Major's government was that the cabinet was crap?
Major's Cabinet was made up of MPs as equally well supported within the Tory party and as capable of being PM as he was (not that that says a lot). With Major at their head they were without leadership or direction. The PM has to lead the Cabinet - it doesn't matter how strong individual components of the Cabinet are, as depts have to work in tandem, often with opposing Ministers in charge - and to do that they must be strong. In this, Blair had a lot of what it takes to be a great PM but he fucked up.


I read this the other day, it's quite interesting:
The tragedy of Tony Blair, what he was and what he became

This summer, Tony Blair stood on foreign soil, recalled a military adventure past and declared: “I did what was right. I did what was just. I did not regret it then. I do not regret it now." If the formulation sounds familiar, the conflict is unlikely to be the one that first comes to mind. The former prime minister and Labour leader from 1994 to 2007 was in fact speaking in Pristina, the capital of Kosovo. In 1999 he had been instrumental in calling for a Nato-led intervention in the conflict between Albanian Muslim fighters in the former Yugoslav province of Kosovo and the Serbia of the late dictator Slobodan Milosevic. Mr Blair's role then means that today he is received as a hero in Kosovo: during the visit to Pristina in July he was greeted by no fewer than nine boys named either Toni or Tonibler in his honour.

But it is his decision to intervene elsewhere in the world, in Iraq in 2003, that so diminished his reputation and discredited the doctrine of liberal interventionism. Ridiculed and reviled at home, lauded in Kosovo, Sierra Leone and many parts of the United States, our former prime minister - and Labour's most successful leader, in terms of elections won - now has a strange half-and-half life: rootless, haunted, disparaged. He has become a habitué of the club class lounge and luxury international hotel, ceaselessly on the move, never at peace, like a fugitive in his own land.

Inevitably, Mr Blair devotes a lengthy section of his 718-page memoirs, A Journey (published on 1 September), to Iraq. And, sadly, he continues to elide, deceive and mislead. He insists, for example, that he did not "guess the nightmare that unfolded" in Iraq. But the truth is he didn't need to guess: in November 2002, six of the country's leading academic experts on Iraq, as well as the former prime minister John Major, warned him of the catastrophic consequences that would follow invasion. Mr Blair asks, of Saddam Hussein, why he brought "war upon his country to protect a myth", when he knows full well that an avoidable war was instigated by the legally questionable invasion. When he asks why Saddam "obstructed" the weapons inspectors, he is directly contradicting Hans Blix, the UN's lead inspector in Iraq at the time.

That he wanted to intervene abroad is not the objection (the reluctance of the great powers to act in Rwanda in 1994 was part of the justification Mr Blair gave for the later, justified actions in Kosovo and Sierra Leone). The objection to him, then as now, is that he was wilfully led into a fatal neocon misadventure by George W Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. Many among the political classes, including an ineffectual Conservative Party led by Iain Duncan Smith, may have supported him, but Charles Kennedy's Lib Dems did not, nor did the late Robin Cook, nor the million who marched against the war in London in 2003. We agree with David Miliband, who, at our leadership hustings in June, said: "The worst thing that happened to Tony Blair was George Bush."

Yet let us not forget what Mr Blair once represented, nor what he achieved. The early years in power were defined by bold liberal and social-democratic reform - witness the introduction of the minimum wage, the windfall tax on the privatised utilities, devolution in Scotland, Wales and London, the Human Rights Act and independence for the Bank of England. But somewhere towards the end of his first term something changed, and the energy and purpose morphed into a doctrinaire zeal, both at home and abroad.

That Mr Blair's book is self-serving is of little surprise - which autobiography isn't? - but it simply reaffirms the image of a politician whose moral fervour distorted once-good judgement. What disappoints most, however, is his post-power "dash for cash": £2.5m a year advising the US investment bank JPMorgan on globalisation, an undisclosed six-figure yearly sum from the Swiss financial firm Zurich insurance, £500,000 from the Washington Speakers Bureau for a worldwide tour of public engagements, and so on.

It is true that Mr Blair's unpaid role as envoy for the Middle East Quartet offers an alternative outlet for his powers of persuasion and, perhaps, gives him a chance to rebuild his reputation in the Muslim world. Indeed, he was kept away from Britain on the day his book was published to attend the opening of the Israel and Palestine talks in Washington.

In the postscript of his memoir, he offers, in effect, an endorsement of the coalition government's economic policy, arguing that he would have raised VAT and cut the deficit faster than Labour would have done. It is some measure of his political journey that his views on the economy are closer to David Cameron and George Osborne's than to those of any of the Labour leadership candidates. A tragedy, indeed.
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Pappa » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:05 pm

Posse Comitatus wrote:[
Yes, well, other than three elections which each time met him with a resounding majority, despite at least one of the major opposition parties, the Lib Dems, making the issue of civil liberties basically the crux of their manifesto at least twice. Didn't work, because, by and large, and from canvassing experience, people really, really aren't bothered about civil liberties.
That's mostly because they are stupid and have been propagandised and conditioned into only considering crime and health when deciding how to vote.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:12 pm

I want my last post here to be about how great Tony Blair is.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:14 pm

♥ BLAIR

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:17 pm

also please hurry up and remove me because everytime I post somewhere else I have to come back here and make another Blair one. After a while it might get tedious.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Trolldor » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:20 pm

Yo, admins, time it right yeah?
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:21 pm

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Tigger » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:51 pm

Bye, PC.
//
Blair is a cunt, you know.
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by owtth » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:48 pm

Why is he leaving?



Blair's a wanker
At least I'm housebroken.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:51 pm

When Tony Blair took office, Slobodan Milošević was cleansing and raping the republics of the former Yugoslavia. Mullah Omar was lending Osama bin Laden the hinterland of a failed and rogue state. Charles Taylor of Liberia was leading a hand-lopping militia of enslaved children across the frontier of Sierra Leone, threatening a blood-diamond version of Rwanda in West Africa. And the wealth and people of Iraq were the abused private property of Saddam Hussein and his crime family. Today, all of these Caligula figures are at least out of power, and at the best either dead or on trial. How can anybody with a sense of history not grant Blair some portion of credit for this? And how can anybody with a tincture of moral sense go into a paroxysm and yell that it is he who is the war criminal? It is as if all the civilians murdered by al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Iraq and Afghanistan are to be charged to his account. This is the chaotic mentality of Julian Assange and his groupies.
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