What were you doing?

[Ian]

I remember thinking about the news coverage from the week before when 200 people died in India, the bus accident killing 50 in Pakistan etc.
Why would this touch me any more than all of that?

Because 9/11 wasn't the result of an accident, or from a natural disaster, etc. Those things are terrible too, but some of those things are inevitable. As much as my heart goes out to earthquake victims in Japan or Haiti or the families of an aircraft disaster, when those things happen there's little to be done other than try to clean up the damage, grieve for the dead and hope that we can be better prepared next time. Not much expectation of additional fear, let alone anger. 9/11 involved the deliberate mass murder of several thousand civilians, right in the middle of one of the biggest cities in the world. There's an extra factor in that instance: at the end of the day, there's the knowledge that it didn't have to happen, and that it could and likely would happen again without going after the people responsible for it. That's why violence feels different than a more natural disaster.

[Ian]

Thread split into derail.

[Sælir]

I remember thinking about the news coverage from the week before when 200 people died in India, the bus accident killing 50 in Pakistan etc.
Why would this touch me any more than all of that?

Because 9/11 wasn't the result of an accident, or from a natural disaster, etc. Those things are terrible too, but some of those things are inevitable. As much as my heart goes out to earthquake victims in Japan or Haiti or the families of an aircraft disaster, when those things happen there's little to be done other than try to clean up the damage, grieve for the dead and hope that we can be better prepared next time. Not much expectation of additional fear, let alone anger. 9/11 involved the deliberate mass murder of several thousand civilians, right in the middle of one of the biggest cities in the world. There's an extra factor in that instance: at the end of the day, there's the knowledge that it didn't have to happen, and that it could and likely would happen again without going after the people responsible for it. That's why violence feels different than a more natural disaster.

Well, yes, but at that time I of course thought it was some kind of freak accident (only one of them had hit the tower).,

But there are of course other examples that I could have thought of had I known that don't get anywhere near as much talked about but that are way more serious in my opinion

[Schneibster]

By the measure of deaths, in a single incident (as opposed to, say, an ongoing war), Bhopal was worse:

The official immediate death toll was 2,259 and the government of Madhya Pradesh has confirmed a total of 3,787 deaths related to the gas release.[1] Others estimate 3,000 died within weeks and another 8,000 have since died from gas-related diseases.[2][3] A government affidavit in 2006 stated the leak caused 558,125 injuries including 38,478 temporary partial and approximately 3,900 severely and permanently disabling injuries.[4]

But there's also this:

Because 9/11 wasn't the result of an accident, or from a natural disaster, etc.

Which IMHO boils down to my question whether it's worse one person dies while being eaten by a shark, or one person dies instantly and painlessly to allow that shark victim's death to be easy and quick (if some magical way that could happen- I picked the example because one cannot imagine a shark thinking, much less being malevolent).

[Gawd]

Guys, Ian is going to get mad that we are derailing the thread again with this perspective talk.

[Lozzer]

Guys, Ian is going to get mad that we are derailing the thread again with this perspective talk.

What would you know, about anything? You're a Muslim, almost an Arab, which makes you inferior in every way. You're not good enough to lick anyone's shoe here, you imbecile. You're standing upon the gene pool of giants, like a parasite. Go blow yourself up, or beat your wife to make her. FOOL.

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

I don't mean any of this. I'm just bored of hearing him treat Jews and Americans in this way. Fucking moron

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Guys, Ian is going to get mad that we are derailing the thread again with this perspective talk.

Actually, Gawd, it was me that suggested splitting off the derails, not Ian.

I started the thread because, for various reasons, I felt like sharing my feelings both when I heard about the attacks, when I visited the site of them and now, at the anniversary. I wanted to hear about other people's feelings.

That is what this thread is about - not political point scoring - not tallying up the number of dead in various tragedies, manmade or natural, deliberate and accidental - not anything except that.

So, while I sometimes find your posts interesting and, occasionally, I even agree with them, in this instance, I would ask you (politely) to either answer the OP, or restrict your comments to the derail thread.

Thanks,

XC

[Pappa]

Guys, Ian is going to get mad that we are derailing the thread again with this perspective talk.

What would you know, about anything? You're a Muslim, almost an Arab, which makes you inferior in every way. You're not good enough to lick anyone's shoe here, you imbecile. You're standing upon the gene pool of giants, like a parasite. Go blow yourself up, or beat your wife to make her. FOOL.

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

I don't mean any of this. I'm just bored of hearing him treat Jews and Americans in this way. Fucking moron

Lozzer, this is a warning that further personal attacks will result in a suspension of your account.

[Pappa]

Regarding the OP....

As I had quite strong (and a little naive) anti-American sentiments at the time, my immediate reaction was, "Whoa, fucking hell! About time they got some comeuppance!". Even for a few weeks/months afterwards, I didn't really connect the disaster with the terrible human suffering that was caused. This was partly because, as a few people have already said, terrible things are happening all over the world all the time and they don't get the same international coverage. Even genocides like Rwanda were largely ignored by the international media. But partly also, as was commented upon even in TV news programmes here at the time, the US had finally got a taste of what a lot of the rest of the world have been dealing with for a long time already, albeit in one major terrorist even rather than lots of smaller ones.

Also, I felt that the US should really expect this kind of event. You can't spend decades with your fingers in everyone else's pies, manipulating global politics to your advantage, interfering in other countries affairs, inserting and propping up dictators, funding dodgy rebel groups that further your short-term aims, etc., etc., without eventually getting some comeback for those actions. While my perspective changed over time to see the human side and how fucking horrendous it was, I haven't changed my view that the attacks never would have happened if the US's nose was clean. Same goes for the UK too. I'm not saying we 'deserved' it, but it is an inevitable consequence of allowing our governments to behave in the ways they do.

[Hermit]

Also, I felt that the US should really expect this kind of event. You can't spend decades with your fingers in everyone else's pies, manipulating global politics to your advantage, interfering in other countries affairs, inserting and propping up dictators, funding dodgy rebel groups that further your short-term aims, etc., etc., without eventually getting some comeback for those actions. While my perspective changed over time to see the human side and how fucking horrendous it was, I haven't changed my view that the attacks never would have happened if the US's nose was clean. Same goes for the UK too. I'm not saying we 'deserved' it, but it is an inevitable consequence of allowing our governments to behave in the ways they do.

If only Gawd could express his opinions like that.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

On a slight derail, I think it was important that we had at least one major case of domestic terrorism, Oklahoma City. If not we'd be hearing "Merkins don't do that shit" despite groups like the KKK being here for over a century now. I've actually heard the "No True Scotsman" argument regarding McVeigh.