Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by Hermit » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:35 am

Hermit wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:00 am
JimC wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:47 pm
NineBerry wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:20 pm
As far as I know this last decision was made by a judge and not a jury
What it did was very unusual in Oz - the judges overturned a jury decision...

The Vatican's reach is long, just like Sauron...
The High Court did not even consider the jury decision as such. Special leave to appeal to the highest court in Australia is rarely granted, and when it is granted the verdict is almost never in question. In this case the appeal was on the grounds of an error in the administration of justice. The bench did not consider the issue of guilty or not guilty. It agreed that there was indeed an error in the administration of justice. In other words, Cardinal George Pell was let off the hook on a legal technicality.

How George Pell won in the High Court on a legal technicality
The salient point is explained in the last section of the article, but for those who are interested in this particular case it is worth reading in its entirety. Its authors are Ben Mathews, Professor in the School of Law at Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, Australia, Principal Research Fellow in the QUT Faculty of Law, and Director of the multi-Faculty Childhood Adversity Research Program and Mark Thomas, Senior Lecturer in QUT's Law School, teaching Professional Ethics and Administrative Law.
OK, now - having read the full judgement (you can download it from here), I have changed my mind. I was wrong. The verdict clearly states (paragraph 7) that one of the grounds of the appeal to the High Court was that, contrary to the jury's decision, there remained reasonable doubt that the offences occurred. Equally clearly, the bench agreed unanimously that this is so (paragraph 127) before ordering that Pell's convictions be quashed in paragraph 129.

I now regard the article I quoted from as an extremely curious interpretation of why the High Court found in favour of Pell. It made it look as though it was on grounds of a legal technicality. That's what the title said and the authors repeated the assertion in the text. They argued that:
The High Court allowed “special leave to appeal”. This is unusual, as special leave applications arguing an unreasonable verdict are frequently refused, including in child sexual offence cases.

It can only grant leave if the case involves a question of legal principle, or if – as found here – there’s a question of the administration of justice.

Pell claimed the Court of Appeal caused a miscarriage of justice by misapplying the legal test.

The question for the High Court in whether to give special leave was not about Pell's guilt, or whether the jury was right in their verdict.

It was whether the case involved an issue engaging the interests of the administration of justice.
and Pell won because:
The High Court has given claims about 'lack of opportunity' an elevated technical legal status
This was supposed to be the legal technicality with which Pell got off the hook, and it is utter bullshit. One need not - and the High Court did not - resort to invoking an elevated technical legal status to disagree with the jury's unanimous decision and the majority decision of the judges in the first appeal that the accused was guilty beyond reasonable doubt.


Here is what I think of the situation: It is beyond the High Court's remit to override the verdicts of lower courts unless new evidence or a procedural error has come to light. In the absence of either it should not even have accepted the application for a hearing. It can't just pull rank and say "We disagree". Yet that is precisely what it has done. The High Court has acted exactly like any other old boys' network. Its decision is a travesty of justice.
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by JimC » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:58 am

That was the impression I had...
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:02 pm

So much for a trial by a jury of one's peers.


Little courts have bigger courts,
to review and override them,
And bigger courts have larger still,
and so ad infinitum.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:04 pm

Except it isn't infinitum is it?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by JimC » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:03 pm

Stops at the High Court in Oz...
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by Hermit » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:35 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:03 pm
Stops at the High Court in Oz...
Until 1986 it went one instance higher: The (Judicial Committee of the) Privy Council in London. Best justice money can buy in terms of travel costs alone.
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:57 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:03 pm
Stops at the High Court in Oz...
Can a politician use some sort of ministerial instrument to override even the High Court? Something akin to a presidential pardon in the US?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by NineBerry » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:55 pm

A pardon doesn't override a ruling. It justs removes the punishment.

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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by JimC » Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:53 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:57 pm
JimC wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:03 pm
Stops at the High Court in Oz...
Can a politician use some sort of ministerial instrument to override even the High Court? Something akin to a presidential pardon in the US?
I don't think we have the equivalent of a presidential pardon. I think that a high court ruling is pretty final. If the government doesn't approve of a specific ruling, the only thing it could do is to pass legislation that meant that such a ruling could not occur in future...
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by Galaxian » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:33 am

mistermack wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:10 pm
Poor Mr. Pell has fallen victim to the modern scourge of false allegations against the church.
He wouldn't do anything of the sort, he's a man of god.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -explainer
I don't believe any of these allegations that go back decades. Unless they were made at the time, my inclination is to treat them as a dash for cash.
I hope these scammers don't get a penny. Even if it's true, they don't deserve it, for not having the guts to kill the fucker, or cut his cock off.
Edit: But if it is true, surely he would be ideal as the next pope ?
In many countries there's a statute of limitations: "You must wait at least 10 years before making an accusation. The longer you wait, the more likely you'll win your alleged sex crime claim. So 20, 30, 40 years is almost certain to win handsomely!"

Pell's accusers should've waited a few more years for guaranteed jackpot dividends. But the judges & lawyers are richer anyway :drunk:
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Re: Cardinal George Pell falsely accused

Post by Hermit » Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:52 pm

Galaxian wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:33 am
In many countries there's a statute of limitations: "You must wait at least 10 years before making an accusation. The longer you wait, the more likely you'll win your alleged sex crime claim. So 20, 30, 40 years is almost certain to win handsomely!"
Is it only I who finds it somewhat weird that Glaxative makes this assertion in a thread about someone who has been accused of sexual crimes dating back to 1961, and not been found guilty of them - or any others whatsoever?

Generally speaking, the reality is contrary to Glaxative's wild and woolly assertion. Most sex crimes are not even reported. Most reported sex crimes do not result in charges being laid. Most sex crimes that are followed by charges being laid do not make it to court. Most sex crimes that get as far as making it to court do not result in a conviction.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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