Hmmm. Back to the 'all people lie' argument I see - the argument of last resort. Of the two, who appeared the least 'off their rocker' in last Thursdays hearing do you think: Mr Kavanaugh or Ms Ford? Now, if she's 'off her rocker' her family, friends, colleagues and the science community she's worked with for 30+ years might be able to shed some light on that. Perhaps you should research what her colleagues say about her, at the least, and then report back. So, are you going to apply your exacting conditional epistemology to Mr Kavaaugh or not, or does he get a free pass?Forty Two wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:13 pmIt's possible. We are always amazed when fucked up people lie through their teeth (not just about rape or sexual assault). But, she could also be off her rocker.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:33 pmSo Ms Ford is a mendacious, conspiratorial, lying shill?Forty Two wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:52 pmAnd, whose house was it? PJ's (no). Kavanaugh's (no). Mark Judge (no). Keyser's (no). Was it her own house? (no).
At most, there was one other person there, so it's that guy's house. She doesn't say who that is, though.
She knows there was ONE other male at the party she attended at which she was so traumatically sexually assaulted that it has effected her for her entire life, and it still makes her cry to tell it. She remembers EVERYONE ELSE at the party, except the one person whose testimony could sink the whole thing.
If we knew whose house it was, we could ask that person about it, and maybe find out that there was no such party, or that Ford's account of what went on is not accurate. It's not as if she is being asked to remember one person out of a a party of many people. She doesn't remember the HOST of the party, when she remembers - she says - everyone else who was at the party (well, she remembers now -- previously she had different numbers of people attending, so, who knows...?). You remember four attendees, but not the person who hosted the party.
And, this is at a time in her life when she didn't attend many parties. Remember - she told the committee that she wasn't really allowed out late, and most of this popular group's parties occurred at night when she wasn't allowed out. She was just 15. Were there so many parties that she attended at so many people's houses that this one just blended in? She can't drive -- and she had parents who would really be pissed off if she was "drinking beer with boys" -- so she was terrified to mention being almost raped to them.... she wasn't allowed out late enough to attend the same parties Kavanaugh attended -- but, she was invited to someone's house (the one attendee we don't know is the host of the party) - she was driven there by someone (not anyone at the party) -- and it was early, during the day -- and she remembers she was at "the country club" earlier and left there and was driven to the party (by whom we don't know, but we can be 100% sure she was driven there), to go to the person she doesn't remember's house, and all the other people there have no idea who the bost could be because none of them have any idea what Blasey Ford is talking about....?
And, of course, we don't know who picked her up afterwards (having cut the whole thing short - she was just going to go take a piss -- she wasn't leaving) - and then she runs out of the house. Someone picked her up, she's sure, but we can't possibly figure out who. Nobody comes forward. Or, will she next say that she remember walking for miles on her own, in shock over the incident?
We're supposed to believe this?
Mattress girl?
Sabrina Erdely's "Jackie"?
Mary Zolkowski?
Nikki Yolvino?
McMartin preschool?
Duke Lacrosse?
Susan Smith?
Anna Anderson
Some people are nuts, too. Some people think they have relationships with celebrities when they don't. Dr. Ford conceivably may be in need of serious help.
Most people tell the truth. We've been over this before. Even if the allegation was about financial impropriety or a regular assault and battery, or theft of a lawn mower. Most people don't accuse people falsely. However, some people do, whether honestly or dishonestly. This appears to be one of those times.
Kavanaugh hearing
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
Of course it's not a criminal court. However, normal logic and reason still apply.Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:29 pmI think I understand your position 42. I just don't agree with your approach here. It's not a criminal court.
Yes, and we can also see that where someone offers two versions of the fact which conflict, they can't both be true. In any other context, that kind of thing renders an allegation of fact less persuasive. Like, if I said, "Sean punched me in the face, last week at my house." And, if Sean responds "that's rather curious, since I was on vacation at the beach last week, 300 miles from your house and I did not get back until yesterday." And, then I respond, "oh, wait, yes, what I meant to say was it was at my BEACH house, which just so happens was near the beach where Sean was on vacation." Don't mind my memory problems, people who suffer trauma are very apt to have trouble remembering things. However, rest assured, I am 100% sure that Sean punched me in the face last week. That's the important part - the rest doesn't matter, and proving my story wrong doesn't effect the fact that the unfalsifiable bit is 100% true. Honest.
This is not any different from any allegation, whether in criminal court or not. It is the rarest of situations where third parties can really know what happened and what's true. Like, if John Doe accuses Jane Roe of copying answers off of him on the test. Is Jane's academic career to be destroyed because John says so? The school should expel her just because John Doe says "I am 100% sure that Jane looked at my test and copied the answers...."? Nobody would do that, and it is very rare - exceedingly rare - for a person to accuse someone of that if it's not true. Almost all such allegations are honest - because almost all allegations of misconduct by one person against another are brought forward honestly. The new conventional wisdom is for some reason that sexual assault is somehow different - that we believe the accuser because most of them are honest. Well.... what does that have to do with anything? Most accusers of any criminal or otherwise wrongful behavior are honest.Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:29 pm
I'm not happy about the position they've put us in either. But I'm trying to accept that it will remain an uncertainty. I'm also trying to figure out how we should proceed given that this will remain an uncertainty. By that I just mean what I think the best course of action is, and not that I think we have any say in what actually happens.![]()
Moreover -- here, it's not just that Ford has unverifiable claims - it's that her claims have changed, shifted, and they've done so in response to risks of being falsified. Further, there is motivation to lie here.
People cheered when Senator Blumenthal said if someone lies about a small thing, you really can't believe them about anything. Apply that to Ford - she did not tell the truth about the second door on her house. That was flat out false. So, two options - either she lied, or she honestly believes that she was trying to convince her husband to put a second door on their house in 2012, when the door was put on there years earlier for the purpose of renting part of the house to strangers. If she really believes that, then her connection with reality has an issue. Doesn't it?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
Well, all people do lie.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:44 pm
Hmmm. Back to the 'all people lie' argument I see - the argument of last resort. Of the two, who appeared the least 'off their rocker' in last Thursdays hearing do you think: Mr Kavanaugh or Ms Ford? Now, if she's 'off her rocker' her family, friends, colleagues and the science community she's worked with for 30+ years might be able to shed some light on that. Perhaps you should research what her colleagues say about her, at the least, and then report back. So, are you going to apply your exacting conditional epistemology to Mr Kavaaugh or not, or does he get a free pass?
However, the argument I was making was that some allegations are false. And, that's not an argument of last resort - that's reality. Some allegations are false. Do you dispute that?
Now you ask me who I found less believable? First - I was examining the nuts and bolts of her story. My posts here have not relied on who I thought delivered a more believable performance. My posts related to whose stories made sense and whose didn't. It doesn't matter how good Ford portrayed herself -- her facts don't add up.
I don't have an "exacting" epistemology - but the same rules apply to Kavanaugh too. But, again, that's a non sequitur. Ford's story falls on its own, and without any reference to Kavanaugh, and for the reasons I stated. And, I have not relied on public opinion or popularity - her story falls apart because her different versions can't be true.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
Wait, I'm not getting it - this is what you said the "math" was:
You now say that this leads you to conclude that the date of the assault was some time in 1982? Kav is a senior at G-Prep and he was a football and basketball palyer.In 1982, Kavanaugh was a senior at elite Georgetown Prep boarding school outside Washington, D.C., where he played on the football team and was also captain of the basketball team.
His accuser was a sophomore cheerleader at Holton-Arms School, an all-female academy with alumni that include Jackie Kennedy and "Veep" star Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
I mean, are you concluding that something here is "plausible?" Because that's different - sure, they have to be in the same vicinity in order for the allegations to even be "plausible" and there are outside limits, meaning if Kavanaugh is in Yale at the time and didn't come home, then Ford's allegations sort of become implausible. However, since her allegations began with an allegation that she was assaulted in the "mid-1980s" doesn't the shift to 1982 seem all the more suspicious? Or, at least isn't it just as "plausible" that the timing was massaged a bit in order to address the issue of him not being in the State at the time she originally claimed to have been assaulted....?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
We’ll solve his calendar problem.
Maybe it says somewhere on the calendar when he was no longer a virgin?

May 5th. Big circles and exclamation marks. Stops assaulting girls at parties. For a while.
Maybe it says somewhere on the calendar when he was no longer a virgin?

May 5th. Big circles and exclamation marks. Stops assaulting girls at parties. For a while.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
And I want a pay rise, Sauron (AKA Voldemort). I haven't had one for simply ages!

Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... naugh-ford"It’s time to put this embarrassing spectacle behind us," said McConnell, who reiterated his plan to hold at least a preliminary vote on Kavanaugh’s confirmation this week.
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said, “We have no idea if the FBI is doing a real investigation or simply preparing a fig leaf at the direction of the White House for Republicans to vote yes.”
Regarding Wray, Schumer of New York said, "If he’s being constrained by the White House, he has an obligation to let us know."
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
You said we both referred to the drinking allegation. I was responding to the fighting allegation. And yet again we find you totally unable to accept your own fucking words. Dickhead.Forty Two wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pmGod alfuckingmighty. I said you referred to the fucking bar room brawling, and Brian referred to the drinking. The bar room brawl incident involved drinking, too, by the way. I was very clear, and quoted you both. Fuck the fuck off.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:08 pmI didn't say anything about drinking. Don't misrepresent what I said for your dodgy rhetorical purposes.Forty Two wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:19 pmSeabass - Look at what pervin wrote - and then look at what Brian wrote - that's what I'm responding to.
What are they talking about? Beers. A bit of bar room brawling. Did they refer to anything else? No.
There certainly are other issues besides his drinking - but pervin here and Brian both sarcastically referred to the bar room brawl and drinking allegations. Pervin sarcastically referred to as "normal" - meaning he's really suggesting it isn't normal.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
Ok. Is that a "political opponent", though?Forty Two wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:46 pmpErvinalia wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:45 amHate speech laws have been in effect for decades. Where have they been used to silence political opponents? If they haven't been used so far, what would make you think they all of a sudden would be?https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29/in- ... iewpoints/MANY AMERICANS WHO long for Europe’s hate speech restrictions assume that those laws are used to outlaw and punish expression of the bigoted ideas they most hate: racism, homophobia, Islamophobia, misogyny. Often, such laws are used that way. There are numerous cases in western Europe and Canada of far-right extremists being arrested, fined, or even jailed for publicly spouting that type of overt bigotry.
But hate speech restrictions are used in those countries to suppress, outlaw, and punish more than far-right bigotry. Those laws have frequently been used to constrain and sanction a wide range of political views that many left-wing censorship advocates would never dream could be deemed “hateful,” and even against opinions which many of them likely share.
France is probably the most extreme case of hate speech laws being abused in this manner. In 2015, France’s highest court upheld the criminal conviction of 12 pro-Palestinian activists for violating restrictions against hate speech. Their crime? Wearing T-shirts that advocated a boycott of Israel — “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel,” the shirts read — which, the court ruled, violated French law that “prescribes imprisonment or a fine of up to $50,000 for parties that ‘provoke discrimination, hatred or violence toward a person or group of people on grounds of their origin, their belonging or their not belonging to an ethnic group, a nation, a race or a certain religion.'”
While I, personally, am generally a supporter of Israel's right to exist and to defend itself, I think it is an abomination for there to be a law restricting persons from provoking discrimination, hatred or violence toward a peron or group on the ground of their origin, etc. - as it necessarily will include allegations that boycotting Israel, or Palestine, or saying white power, or black power, is doing just that. We need a world where Louis Farrakhan is allowed to spew his hate, not because he gets a special right to talk shit to power because he's a member of a disfavored group, but because each "individual" has the same right to speak as everyone else.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
That much is obvious, and explains pretty much everything..
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
pErvinilia, the quality of your posts makes me believe everyone else above you.
You regularly argue about the argument without making your own point anyway, so nothing lost really.
If you took a position, it might be found incorrect though, so I understand your fear.
You regularly argue about the argument without making your own point anyway, so nothing lost really.
If you took a position, it might be found incorrect though, so I understand your fear.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
Wut? Who cares what you think?
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Kavanaugh hearing
Actually, it nicely corroborates the account of Chad Ludington, Kavanaugh's classmate at Yale.Forty Two wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:07 pmActually, that police report does not corroborate the account of the person reporting the incident now. According to the unredacted police report, Kavanaugh's friend was arrested. The most Kavanaugh is accused of doing is throwing some ice.Joe wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:48 pmFunny thing about that bar room brawl. It corroborates the accounts of people who said Kavanaugh misrepresented his drinking in his Senate testimony, and rather than just being a memory, there's a police report that documents that an altercation took place and Kavanaugh was involved.
That's probably not enough for most GOP Senators, but might influence some of the waverers. Who knows?![]()
It must suck to get caught in a lie, people dismiss everything else you say. Kavanaugh's been caught in a lot of them. Seabass posted an article that gave an extensive account of his lies under oath. I haven't seen anybody disprove it.On one of the last occasions I purposely socialized with Brett, I witnessed him respond to a semi- hostile remark, not by defusing the situation, but by throwing his beer in the man's face and starting a fight that ended with one of our mutual friends in jail
I figure you won't, but you'll have to do a better job of making a credible counterargument before I consider it more than your usual blind partisan blather.And I do believe that Brett's actions as a 53-year-old federal judge matter," Ludington said. "If he lied about his past actions on national television, and more especially while speaking under oath in front of the United States Senate, I believe those lies should have consequences. It is truth that is at stake, and I believe that the ability to speak the truth, even when it does not reflect well upon oneself, is a paramount quality we seek in our nation's most powerful judges."
And Forty Two...Picard? Really?

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing
This will surely prove Ford lied about EVERYTHING! She flies planes as often as possible! She uses doors, goes inside rooms!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christ ... unds-alarm
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christ ... unds-alarm
Re: Kavanaugh hearing
I can tell by the quality of the posts you make, that you don't care what anyone thinks of them.
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