The End of NATO

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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:01 am

Rum wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:03 pm
Well you've given the game away there haven't you as far as Brexit is concerned? Germany is not an 'independent country'. If that is the attitude of the average EU citizen it is no surprise that the average Brit wants nothing to do with it.
Dont like cooperating then. Being part of a union. Forming a united front against a turd. Brits have great problems with cooperation. They dont do it which is why the can never be part of anything. Like Trump they see it as only as an advantage for them and when that fails they start moaning. They have this illusion that they are some sort of "top dog" when that time is long gone but still they hold on to it.

Another thing Trump does about complaining how little other NATO members pay. He claims that America pays 4% GDP into NATO but he never itemises what is in that 4%. Apparently that is all defence and anti-terrorist costs including things like the NSA and CIA. Even the new space guard is included.
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:02 am

laklak wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:02 am
The UN should be on it's own island, New York City would make a fuck of a lot more money on parking fines. Plus, we could bomb them without unacceptable collateral damage.
But, but... they would send extremely strongly worded protests, how can you withstand that?
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:53 am

.

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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:44 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:01 am
Rum wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:03 pm
Well you've given the game away there haven't you as far as Brexit is concerned? Germany is not an 'independent country'. If that is the attitude of the average EU citizen it is no surprise that the average Brit wants nothing to do with it.
Dont like cooperating then. Being part of a union. Forming a united front against a turd. Brits have great problems with cooperation. They dont do it which is why the can never be part of anything. Like Trump they see it as only as an advantage for them and when that fails they start moaning. They have this illusion that they are some sort of "top dog" when that time is long gone but still they hold on to it.
What are you talking about? 50% voted to stay in the union.
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:47 am

Most of those being Scots, methinks... Let's not forget that as soon as UK was part of the EU, or its predecessor organisations, they started spitting in the soup and causing obstruction, I guess the peak was during Maggie's reign, but all governments have done it.
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:59 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:44 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:01 am
Rum wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:03 pm
Well you've given the game away there haven't you as far as Brexit is concerned? Germany is not an 'independent country'. If that is the attitude of the average EU citizen it is no surprise that the average Brit wants nothing to do with it.
Dont like cooperating then. Being part of a union. Forming a united front against a turd. Brits have great problems with cooperation. They dont do it which is why the can never be part of anything. Like Trump they see it as only as an advantage for them and when that fails they start moaning. They have this illusion that they are some sort of "top dog" when that time is long gone but still they hold on to it.
What are you talking about? 50% voted to stay in the union.
The Little Englanders definitely wanted out. As Svarty said Scots, Northern Irish and Londoners wanted to remain.
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:02 am

Northern Irish wanted to remain? their ties to Ireland migh be stronger than to the UK? rev Ian Paisley must be turning in his grave...
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:06 am

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:02 am
Northern Irish wanted to remain? their ties to Ireland migh be stronger than to the UK? rev Ian Paisley must be turning in his grave...
More than the half (55%) voted to remain which is why the solution to the Irish border would be so simple.
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Rum » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:43 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:01 am
Rum wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:03 pm
Well you've given the game away there haven't you as far as Brexit is concerned? Germany is not an 'independent country'. If that is the attitude of the average EU citizen it is no surprise that the average Brit wants nothing to do with it.
Dont like cooperating then. Being part of a union. Forming a united front against a turd. Brits have great problems with cooperation. They dont do it which is why the can never be part of anything. Like Trump they see it as only as an advantage for them and when that fails they start moaning. They have this illusion that they are some sort of "top dog" when that time is long gone but still they hold on to it.

Another thing Trump does about complaining how little other NATO members pay. He claims that America pays 4% GDP into NATO but he never itemises what is in that 4%. Apparently that is all defence and anti-terrorist costs including things like the NSA and CIA. Even the new space guard is included.
As ever you switch the goal posts when the discussion doesn't go your way. I was commenting on the point you made - the slip - that Germany was not an independent country.

As to the 'cooperative' nature of the EU, if you think countries join up because it will be good for other people than themselves you are seriously misguided. Every country's government has a first duty to act in the interests of its own people. Why do you think the poorer countries who have joined over recent years were in such a rush to do so? They are willing to give up a little of their independence to get a money pipeline link to Germany and France.

Perversely the more you post about the incredible benefits of the EU the more I find myself wondering if I should have considered voting leave after all.

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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Hermit » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:49 am

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:02 am
laklak wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:02 am
The UN should be on it's own island, New York City would make a fuck of a lot more money on parking fines. Plus, we could bomb them without unacceptable collateral damage.
But, but... they would send extremely strongly worded protests, how can you withstand that?
Nah. They'll send nothing. You can always rely on someone to veto any resolution.

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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:12 am

Rum wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:43 am


As ever you switch the goal posts when the discussion doesn't go your way. I was commenting on the point you made - the slip - that Germany was not an independent country.

As to the 'cooperative' nature of the EU, if you think countries join up because it will be good for other people than themselves you are seriously misguided. Every country's government has a first duty to act in the interests of its own people. Why do you think the poorer countries who have joined over recent years were in such a rush to do so? They are willing to give up a little of their independence to get a money pipeline link to Germany and France.

Perversely the more you post about the incredible benefits of the EU the more I find myself wondering if I should have considered voting leave after all.
I did not switch goal posts and I did not make a slip. No country in the EU is independent that is what the EU means just as you said yourself: "They are willing to give up a little of their independence". We all do but that was something the 1% in the UK did not wont to do. They wanted their cake and eat it. They expected in their arrogance to be able to take control (where that idea came from is beyond me but Maggie thought of it first).
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Rum » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:56 am

It was actually nearer 4%. And the UK didn't sign up to 'ever closer union' . It gradually crept up on them and for whatever reason the majority didn't fancy the idea of a united States of Europe.

Personally I did quite like the idea, but most - the majority - didn't and while the country still had the power to it decided to walk away. I can see a future where that simply won't be possible for some countries.

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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:36 am

Just why would we want to? That is really ancient thinking. Your walking away just protect the money of the 1%.
It was explained to the UK when it joined what the aims were but the UK thought it could hijack the common market for its own purposes. It failed totally. It did attempt from time to time but when the 1% realised the direction it was going and the approaching massive taxes that will be imposed on them they pulled out all the stops and lies to get out.
Did you really think they cared about the people?
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:37 am

Rum wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:56 am
It was actually nearer 4%. And the UK didn't sign up to 'ever closer union' . It gradually crept up on them and for whatever reason the majority didn't fancy the idea of a united States of Europe.

Personally I did quite like the idea, but most - the majority - didn't and while the country still had the power to it decided to walk away. I can see a future where that simply won't be possible for some countries.
Yeah, well you don't have democracy in the UK (only the Dutch have actual democracy), so the vote wasn't a democratic vote.
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Re: The End of NATO

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:41 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:37 am
Rum wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:56 am
It was actually nearer 4%. And the UK didn't sign up to 'ever closer union' . It gradually crept up on them and for whatever reason the majority didn't fancy the idea of a united States of Europe.

Personally I did quite like the idea, but most - the majority - didn't and while the country still had the power to it decided to walk away. I can see a future where that simply won't be possible for some countries.
Yeah, well you don't have democracy in the UK (only the Dutch have actual democracy), so the vote wasn't a democratic vote.
Very true. Only 27% voted to leave in an advisory referendum that should have never had happened.
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