Toldjaso!

[rainbow]

Wrong. The entire basis of even utopian Communism is that the individual owns nothing, not even his body or his labor.

You read this where, exactly?

[JimC]

Wrong. The entire basis of even utopian Communism is that the individual owns nothing, not even his body or his labor.

You read this where, exactly?

Probably in a dog-eared copy of "Communism for Dummies"

[MrJonno]

Only the Seth deal in absolutes

Not always, but in the case of Marxism, yes, absolutely. It's absolutely evil and it absolutely must be extirpated from the face of the earth.

Well I quite happy to live with my Marxist health service, unions, minimum wage , market regulations, a limited publicly funded military, progressive tax system, democracy and in fact a country with borders at all

I guess being evil isn't so bad

[Seth]

Wrong. The entire basis of even utopian Communism is that the individual owns nothing, not even his body or his labor.

You read this where, exactly?

The Communist Manifesto and other Marx works.

What part of "from each according to his ability" is unclear to you?

It's not "from each according to his ability and willingness to donate labor and the fruits thereof to the common good."

That phrase was used as the justification for the torture and genocide of 40 million people by the Soviets. The "collective" decides what your ability is, and it takes what it thinks you should be producing and punishes you if you fail to produce to it's expectations.

God, you people are idiots when it comes to understanding Marxism...Useful idiots perhaps, but idiots nonetheless.

[Seth]

Only the Seth deal in absolutes

Not always, but in the case of Marxism, yes, absolutely. It's absolutely evil and it absolutely must be extirpated from the face of the earth.

Well I quite happy to live with my Marxist health service, unions, minimum wage , market regulations, a limited publicly funded military, progressive tax system, democracy and in fact a country with borders at all

I guess being evil isn't so bad

No, it's bad. It's morally and ethically corrupt and evil because you participate in the unwilling and forcible enslavement of others to your needs and desires, which makes you scum of the lowest order who should be turned out into the empty waste to die of starvation and thirst for the betterment of mankind.

Just because you like it doesn't make it a good thing. I'm sure Hitler enjoyed his vacations at the Eagle's Nest as 12 million people were slaughtered at his concentration camps.

Your attitude just makes you the moral equal of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and every other disgusting piece of shit of a Marxist that has ever existed.

You and your ilk are exactly why I continue to oppose Marxism in all its forms.

[MrJonno]

Just because you like it doesn't make it a good thing

Not me alone sure, but if enough people believe then that by definition is a good thing ie anything that makes sociey better

[Svartalf]

I bet a majority of the English and French just enjoy their communist based system.

[Seth]

I bet a majority of the English and French just enjoy their communist based system.

And that makes their enslavement of the minority who do not enjoy being forced to labor on their behalf moral or ethical how, precisely?

I'm sure the majority of SS officers enjoyed their lifestyle. I'm equally sure that the majority of the apparatchiks and bureaucrats in the Soviet, Maoist and Marxist governments world over enjoy their power and privilege as they enslave the unwilling to their service.

[JimC]

I wonder if Seth even realises we are mocking his absurdist view of what constitutes a communist system?

In reality, what the rest of us are enjoying is democratic government, under the rule of law, with a mixed economy and a more enlightened policy of social service than right-wing hardliners find acceptable.

If the government goes too far in a particular direction, that the majority finds not to their taste, then they risk losing power at the next election. Rather the antithesis of totalitarian communism...

Seth, you need to read "Democracy for Dummies"...

[piscator]

Only the Seth deal in absolutes

Not always, but in the case of Marxism, yes, absolutely. It's absolutely evil and it absolutely must be extirpated from the face of the earth.

Well I quite happy to live with my Marxist health service, unions, minimum wage , market regulations, a limited publicly funded military, progressive tax system, democracy and in fact a country with borders at all

I guess being evil isn't so bad

No, it's bad. It's morally and ethically corrupt and evil because you participate in the unwilling and forcible enslavement of others to your needs and desires, which makes you scum of the lowest order who should be turned out into the empty waste to die of starvation and thirst for the betterment of mankind.

Just because you like it doesn't make it a good thing. I'm sure Hitler enjoyed his vacations at the Eagle's Nest as 12 million people were slaughtered at his concentration camps.

Your attitude just makes you the moral equal of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and every other disgusting piece of shit of a Marxist that has ever existed.

You and your ilk are exactly why I continue to oppose Marxism in all its forms.

Everyone who works for $$ has a part in a system of forcible enslavement of unwilling others to their needs and desires.
"Willing!", you assert? "Free!", you declare? There's no distinction between Libertarian freedom and enslavement to any other economic religion, because the degrees of freedom (choices) are exactly the same at the end of the day: We all have to toil in the service of someone else to attain something of what we desire.

[Seth]

I wonder if Seth even realises we are mocking his absurdist view of what constitutes a communist system?

In reality, what the rest of us are enjoying is democratic government, under the rule of law, with a mixed economy and a more enlightened policy of social service than right-wing hardliners find acceptable.

If the government goes too far in a particular direction, that the majority finds not to their taste, then they risk losing power at the next election. Rather the antithesis of totalitarian communism...

This is only true when the people have the ability to eject those in power if they decide to disregard the will of the majority, which you do not.

Seth, you need to read "Democracy for Dummies"...

I wrote it...for you to read.

Democracy is high on the list of Very Bad Things, and it's nothing more than a code-word for the tyranny of the majority.

[Seth]

Everyone who works for $$ has a part in a system of forcible enslavement of unwilling others to their needs and desires.
"Willing!", you assert? "Free!", you declare? There's no distinction between Libertarian freedom and enslavement to any other economic religion, because the degrees of freedom (choices) are exactly the same at the end of the day: We all have to toil in the service of someone else to attain something of what we desire.

The key point that you seem unable to comprehend is the link between toil and desire that makes the toil voluntary and therefore not enslavement. Communism and other such models require toil without reward of desire on behalf of others whom the worker may not even know or care about.

[Hermit]

I wonder if Seth even realises we are mocking his absurdist view of what constitutes a communist system?

In reality, what the rest of us are enjoying is democratic government, under the rule of law, with a mixed economy and a more enlightened policy of social service than right-wing hardliners find acceptable.

If the government goes too far in a particular direction, that the majority finds not to their taste, then they risk losing power at the next election. Rather the antithesis of totalitarian communism...

This is only true when the people have the ability to eject those in power if they decide to disregard the will of the majority, which you do not.

How weird, that. I could have sworn we had a change of government a few months ago. Much to my regret, I must say. I hate the new lot, but what can I do? The bastards were voted into office by the majority of our electorate.

[piscator]

Everyone who works for $$ has a part in a system of forcible enslavement of unwilling others to their needs and desires.
"Willing!", you assert? "Free!", you declare? There's no distinction between Libertarian freedom and enslavement to any other economic religion, because the degrees of freedom (choices) are exactly the same at the end of the day: We all have to toil in the service of someone else to attain something of what we desire.

The key point that you seem unable to comprehend is the link between toil and desire that makes the toil voluntary and therefore not enslavement. Communism and other such models require toil without reward of desire on behalf of others whom the worker may not even know or care about.

No more than working for a dollar.

[JimC]

I wonder if Seth even realises we are mocking his absurdist view of what constitutes a communist system?

In reality, what the rest of us are enjoying is democratic government, under the rule of law, with a mixed economy and a more enlightened policy of social service than right-wing hardliners find acceptable.

If the government goes too far in a particular direction, that the majority finds not to their taste, then they risk losing power at the next election. Rather the antithesis of totalitarian communism...

This is only true when the people have the ability to eject those in power if they decide to disregard the will of the majority, which you do not.

How weird, that. I could have sworn we had a change of government a few months ago. Much to my regret, I must say. I hate the new lot, but what can I do? The bastards were voted into office by the majority of our electorate.

Hermit, you are clearly in a delusional state. You need to go back to wearing that tin-foil helmet, then we'll hear no more talk about that weird "changing governments in Oz" crap...