Day care worker may be the worst human ever.

[Collector1337]

I know. But there's surely some rape victims who are crippled (perhaps physically as well as mentally) to the point of not being able to function satisfactorily any more?

And that's why there's therapy. Both physical and mental.

You have to define "not being able to function satisfactorily any more."

As a counsellor, I'd certainly expect you to focus on the positives and potential rehabilitation benefits, but the reality is there must be some people who can't, for whatever reason, be helped, and whose lives are miserable.

Sounds pessimistic.

I make my money from helping people. So, I'm supposed to put myself out of a job, but if they insist on being miserable then they can keep coming to therapy. Private pay preferred.

Why suffer on in life in pain (either mental and/or physical) if they don't have to?

Everyone has some psychological trauma. It's abnormal to want to die because of it, a.k.a. psychopathology.

I really don't have a problem with people like that committing suicide (which isn't saying much, as I don't really have a problem with most people committing suicide).

LOL! And I'm the one who gets called a misanthropist by others on this forum.

Should we start the first "suicide booth" business like in Futurama? We'd make a killing with you manning the phones at the suicide crisis hotline.

[Collector1337]

Also interesting is why religions (some, anyway) tend to frown on suicide. I wonder why that specifically gets their panties in a twist?

Why should you get to go to Heaven if you took the easy way out and took a shortcut to get there?

That's cheating.

[pErvinalia]

I really don't have a problem with people like that committing suicide (which isn't saying much, as I don't really have a problem with most people committing suicide).

LOL! And I'm the one who gets called a misanthropist by others on this forum.

Should we start the first "suicide booth" business like in Futurama? We'd make a killing with you manning the phones at the suicide crisis hotline.

Yeah I should be kept away from those, at all costs..

[Coito ergo sum]

Reframing doesn't mean you're "right" about your different opinion as to what is worse.

Huh? Who says it's about being "right?"

You did. You're saying that people who think there are things worse than death are wrong. Aren't you? Or, am I misunderstanding?

Reframing can occur, also, without the help of a therapist.

No shit.

And, you may wan to take a refresher course, because reframing is not supposed to be where the therapist DETERMINES a patient's feelings for them.

I don't "determine" anyone's feelings for them. I give little nudges in the right direction when I can though, if optimism isn't that particular individual's strong suit.

Well, that is what you said you do. I said it's not for you or me to determine what someone else is feeling or whether they think it's better to die or live. You then said you do, because "reframing."

The "right" direction?

In your opinion. However, that is not objectively true. It's a matter of opinion, and in my opinion there are many examples of instances where dying would be preferable. For example, I would rather get a bullet in my head at 9am to avoid being drawn and quartered at noon. I.e., death may be preferable to a worse death later. I.e. death is preferable to a temporary life that may be extremely horrid or may end in a more painful way.

LOL, okay. So, are we talking about opinions or objectivity here?

Yes, I agree with you. I never meant to imply otherwise. A quick death is certainly better than a long one, no doubt about it.

Not only that, but sometimes a quick death now is better than living for a long time in misery. At least some people think that, and it is not wrong to think that, and that misery can very well be psychological and the result of rape.

That's the whole point behind assisted suicide. A person determines that life is NOT under given circumstances, better than death.

Yeah, I think that was Jack Kevorkian's argument in court. It didn't work out too well for him.

Depends on the jurisdiction.

That depends on the circumstances. I would prefer to live, all things being equal. But, things are almost never equal. As I said, if I am going to live in constant extreme pain, shitting the bed and having to be nursed 24-7, because I have no movement below the neck -- I may well think the nothingness of death to be preferable to agony. Death didn't bother me at all for the first 13 billion years of the universe. Whether I tough it out for another few ticks of the clock is not going to matter in the long run, and may well be worse than ending it.

So, you agree such exceptions like that don't happen very often then?

Or, perhaps you're a captured spy with a suicide pill, who if captured, would surely be tortured for information until death, making the suicide pill a much better option not just for the spy, but for the safety of the country's information.

The thing is, most people don't end up as vegetables, or captured spies, or in prison for life. So usually suicide is just extreme thinking.

No, I'm suggesting that there are clearly exceptions. Whether something is an exception and whether continuing living is preferable to enduring life is an individualized judgment.

Most people don't end up as vegetables, etc., true, but you used the absolute term "always." Clearly, not always.