What?!

[Rum]

We start school earlier than many European countries (it is six the the majority and seven in many) and yet kids in the UK go into secondary school knowing and understanding less than most European kids. It is disgrace and the blame lies firmly wit teaching unions and successive governments unwillingness to tackle them and shake the whole system up.

[PsychoSerenity]

I know 12*12 but what use is the 12.* table? If you know them up to 10 you can do it all by pencil.

When I started school, there were 12 pence to a shilling in Englandshire. The 12 times table was a lot more important back then.

12 is a useful number though, as is 60, both highly divisible which is why they were originally used for so many things. If we normally used a base 12 number system, certain aspects of maths would be much simpler.

[Tero]

We have 24 hours and 6 features a lot in old days. 360 etc.

You can count to 30 on fingers by bookmarking 6s in the second hand. 6, 12,18,24,30. The last finger of the second hand is the 30.

[PsychoSerenity]

We start school earlier than many European countries (it is six the the majority and seven in many) and yet kids in the UK go into secondary school knowing and understanding less than most European kids. It is disgrace and the blame lies firmly wit teaching unions and successive governments unwillingness to tackle them and shake the whole system up.

I'd change that to governments unwillingness to work with them and shake the whole system up. From what I've seen there has always been plenty of "shaking up" dictated by politicians via excessively frequent educational reforms and curriculum changes, but the end result has never been more than Brownian motion, because they never wait to see what is working before moving on to something else.

Mind you I'm mostly thinking of secondary school here, perhaps it's different for primary schools. One thing that is certainly different between the two is primary school teachers don't have the same requirement to actually know much about any subject at all. It's all generalised with each teacher having to teach their class the basics in every subject. If you're going to push a more in-depth curriculum on them, then either you will need more teachers per school or the teachers will have to do a lot more studying.

[PsychoSerenity]

You can count to 30 on fingers by bookmarking 6s in the second hand. 6, 12,18,24,30. The last finger of the second hand is the 30.

You have just blown my mind!

[Xamonas Chegwé]

We start school earlier than many European countries (it is six the the majority and seven in many) and yet kids in the UK go into secondary school knowing and understanding less than most European kids. It is disgrace and the blame lies firmly wit teaching unions and successive governments unwillingness to tackle them and shake the whole system up.

I'd change that to governments unwillingness to work with them and shake the whole system up. From what I've seen there has always been plenty of "shaking up" dictated by politicians via excessively frequent educational reforms and curriculum changes, but the end result has never been more than Brownian motion, because they never wait to see what is working before moving on to something else.

Mind you I'm mostly thinking of secondary school here, perhaps it's different for primary schools. One thing that is certainly different between the two is primary school teachers don't have the same requirement to actually know much about any subject at all. It's all generalised with each teacher having to teach their class the basics in every subject. If you're going to push a more in-depth curriculum on them, then either you will need more teachers per school or the teachers will have to do a lot more studying.

I tutored a woman once that was training to be a primary teacher and couldn't handle the maths. I got her through her exam but I can't help thinking that I should have told her not to bother! She was able to cram for a test but her in-depth understanding of the subject was negligible. Sadly, this tends to be the rule rather than the exception for primary teachers. I have long advocated that primary classes should have TWO main teachers - one for arts/english and another for maths/science. You only have to look at year 7 Maths and Science classes (first year of secondary school) to see how there is a marked divide between the abilities of kids depending on which primary school they come from - something that is simply not present in most art/humanities subjects.

[laklak]

Base 12 would be easier to work with on a daily basis, shame we don't have and extra digit on each hand. Well, outside of Kentucky. But hex is the only number system for real men.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Base 12 would be easier to work with on a daily basis, shame we don't have and extra digit on each hand. Well, outside of Kentucky. But hex is the only number system for real men.

Rubbish! Binary is the natural way of counting for a man. Personally, I count on my penis - we only have one for a reason. (Once again, Kentucky excepted!)

[laklak]

Who needs fucking numbers anyway? One and Many were good enough for me Da and his Da before him.

[Seabass]

I could add, subtract and knew my times tables up to 12x12 before I went to school at 5. I also knew the alphabet and could read and write. My parents taught me.

Same. I don't know how something so basic and fundamental can wait until 9-11 years. If not basic math, then what the hell else is there to teach these kids at that age?

[Kristie]

My daughter, who is turning nine in two days, learned the times table up through twelve this past school year. She was technically a 3rd grader, but she was in an advanced class that did 4th grade math and reading.

[mistermack]

Just a little nugget of history, in case any don't know it.

The reason that the number 12 is so common in our lives, as in hours, minutes, days etc, and dozens. is the ancient system of bartering.

Look at your hand. Your fingers are divided into 12 sections, by the joints. You can indicate any number from 1 to 12 single handed, just by touching it with your thumb. So people used to haggle in this way, even if they didn't speak the same language.

So you don't need an extra digit to work to the base 12, and you don't even need to speak the same language.