Violation of Arizona law to be illegally in the US!

[Coito ergo sum]

Beside the fact that this law is in direct contradiction with the fourth amendment (unreasonable search and seizure, which is what stopping people to check their paperwork without probable cause is, or is it actually a violation of due process?)

It's not against the fourth amendment or due process, because it does not allow a cop to stop people just to check their paperwork. It only allows them to check paperwork if two things are present: (1) they are lawfully stopped for a non-immigration related reason (some other offense), AND (2) there is reasonable suspicion that the person is unlawfully present in the US. It is well within the fourth amendment by those terms.

Moreover, this is one of those areas where I laugh my ass off at Yerpeein indignation over a US law. Every Yerpeein country I've checked gives the authority of their police to check a person's papers EVEN IF there is no suspicion of any crime, and in ALL Yerpeein countries, if they take you into custody for a suspected crime, they'll run your papers to see if you're legally entitled to be in the country. I.e. Every Yerpeein country goes farther than Arizona's new law does, and therefore WAY farther than US law has been up until Arizona decided to crack down a bit. Of course, what Yerpeeins do or don't do doesn't justify what happens in the US -- I just find the judgmental Yerpeein a bit incongruous or ironic on this topic....

[Svartalf]

except that now, in Arizona, walking while brown is treated as suspicious behavior, or cops will pretend to non existent infractions just to check.

[Coito ergo sum]

except that now, in Arizona, walking while brown is treated as suspicious behavior, or cops will pretend to non existent infractions just to check.

Of course it isn't. You can't assume the cops are going to break the law. The law provides for training of police as to what constitutes reasonable suspicion and when they are allowed to check, and why.

This sort of "I assume the cops in Arizona are racists" is complete and utter nonsense. And, you have no evidence for it, so I'm not sure how you justify saying it, other than by the base assumption that Americans are racist against hispanics, which is complete bollocks. By far, the most legal immigrants to the US come from Spanish speaking or "browner" colored countries.

30% of the population of Arizona is hispanic or Latino. 38% of the Arizona police force list their ethnicity as Hispanic.

So, of course, they're going to be running around harassing the 1/3 of the population for no good reason.

[Warren Dew]

It's not against the fourth amendment or due process, because it does not allow a cop to stop people just to check their paperwork. It only allows them to check paperwork if two things are present: (1) they are lawfully stopped for a non-immigration related reason (some other offense), AND (2) there is reasonable suspicion that the person is unlawfully present in the US. It is well within the fourth amendment by those terms.

It's well within the current interpretation of the fourth amendment, anyway. Personally I'd argue that "Terry stops" without probable cause are unconstitutional, but they're clearly allowed at present.

Even the administration says it's okay for a policeman to then check the immigration database. They're only arguing with the law's directing the police to do so.

[Tyrannical]

Arizona should just hold the illegals in detention until either the Feds take possession or until they voluntarily decide to leave the country. No illegal under any circumstances should be allowed to roam freely.

[Coito ergo sum]

It's not against the fourth amendment or due process, because it does not allow a cop to stop people just to check their paperwork. It only allows them to check paperwork if two things are present: (1) they are lawfully stopped for a non-immigration related reason (some other offense), AND (2) there is reasonable suspicion that the person is unlawfully present in the US. It is well within the fourth amendment by those terms.

It's well within the current interpretation of the fourth amendment, anyway. Personally I'd argue that "Terry stops" without probable cause are unconstitutional, but they're clearly allowed at present.

Even the administration says it's okay for a policeman to then check the immigration database. They're only arguing with the law's directing the police to do so.

Much of the Arizona law was copied word for word from current federal law.

What's odd is that nobody seems to object to the federal requirement that all foreign persons in the US carry with them AT ALL TIMES their green card, visa or other documentation showing they are entitled to stay. There is nothing in the Arizona law, actually, that contradicts or goes beyond federal law. It just allows the state authorities to enforce the same law that is on the books federally, essentially.

Even liberal Justices on the court during their questioning while the oral argument on the case was being presented seemed to be skeptical of the federal government's position. Based on those arguments, I think it will be upheld by at least a 6-3 margin. Maybe even unanimously.

There simply is nothing wrong with the Arizona law itself. The only potentially valid objection made seems to be that as applied it might be enforced in a racist manner. However, there was no allegation to that effect made by the government in the case currently before the SCOTUS, and other than speculation that Arizona police must naturally behave racistly, I haven't seen a shred of evidence to support the notion that this has actually happened.

[Coito ergo sum]

Arizona should just hold the illegals in detention until either the Feds take possession or until they voluntarily decide to leave the country. No illegal under any circumstances should be allowed to roam freely.

That I disagree with. There are often reasonable disputes over whether someone is actually here illegally, or whether someone is entitled to lawful status. There is no reason to keep everyone in jail. However, they should be put in the system, and given their opportunity to prove their entitlement to stay, and if not, an order of deportation should be given. Most folks voluntarily depart. The rest ought to be subject to a system where if they don't obey an order of deportation, that they would be arrested if stopped by the police, and then they can be shipped out.

In the UK, if you're illegal there, they put you in jail and then ship you out on a plane. In the US, we let them go inside the US most of the time. Yet, we're somehow the ones that are not kind to immigrants.