Three teens in court over Facebook poppy burning picture

[Schneibster]

So it's the same justification as the Germans have for getting upset about Nazi stuff and Holocaust denial. I can hang with that. I'm glad we haven't had stuff here in the US where it's as much of an issue to where people might get killed over it. We've got slavery to deal with, of course, and the KKK, that we view kinda the same sorta way if you see what I mean, but there haven't been organized killings in decades and the last non-criminal slavery in the US was a century and a half ago, though civil rights were fought over only fifty years ago, and some people died, too. We've made movies where we pilloried such people. And movies about the capture and punishment of the people who did those killings, too. I dunno if it amounts to the same thing.

Yep. I don't know if I believe it myself, but I've heard the argument that one reason for having wars like Vietnam (and so I suppose The Falklands and Afghanistan) is to get some of those people away into another country, where they can either channel their aggression into something other than what they'd be doing at home, or they can get killed.

The ethics of that, if it's true, are:

1. Have some restriction of free speech, on hate speech, defined by the majority and regularly reviewed.
2. Kill off a portion of each generation to get rid of the hotheads.

The choice is pretty stark.

But not at all clear.

[John_fi_Skye]

Yep. Anyway, just back from my jog and away to paint the garage. Life goes on for most of us, eh?

[Robert_S]

I can burn anything in effigy here in the US. If I want to burn a few dozen Koran, then a member of the Cabinet might well just call me up and ask me nicely not to because it might put US troops in more danger.

Nobody seems to give a shit one way or the other if I burn a Bible or a US flag. It makes me think we should have a contingency plan to move Rationalia.com to servers in the US in case of emergency.

[charlou]

I put it to those who are not bothered by this that if a monument in the US, which recognised the loss of life on 9/11, was desecrated... how would would feel about that? After all, it's just a monument; an assembly of carbon atoms manipulated into a recognisable shape.

This kind of 9/11 monument?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The poppy is vaguely reminiscent of the Stars and Bars. You can feel a lot of things about it, and people's reactions to it vary.

[Warren Dew]

I put it to those who are not bothered by this that if a monument in the US, which recognised the loss of life on 9/11, was desecrated... how would would feel about that? After all, it's just a monument; an assembly of carbon atoms manipulated into a recognisable shape.

What's the harm eh?

If the owner of a private monument wanted to desecrate it, no harm, of course.

We've also established pretty clearly that flag burning is fine, which is pretty cognate to your poppy burning.

The ethics of that, if it's true, are:

1. Have some restriction of free speech, on hate speech, defined by the majority and regularly reviewed.
2. Kill off a portion of each generation to get rid of the hotheads.

Or, you know, people could teach their kids the old "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me."

Once one understands that the symbol and the reality are two different things, it's just not that big a deal.

[Gallstones]

When one acquires an item--say a poppy--by legal means, then it belongs to said person(s) and can be disposed of by the owner in whatever way the owner sees fit. I bet most of these poppies end up in the garbage, how is that more respectful/acceptable than burning it?

When one causes damage to property that one does not own that is vandalism and is a criminal act.

Indeed the motive is what matters because the objects--say a poppy--is an object and has no intrinsic rights to being regarded in any particular way or to being protected. Coincidentally, it is the motives of others, when displayed, where observers have control--they control their own emotions and their own reactions.

[Gallstones]

These were teenagers.
Teenagers sometimes do stupid stuff.

[charlou]

Coincidentally, it is the motives of others, when displayed, where observers have control--they control their own emotions and their own reactions.

[Schneibster]

The ethics of that, if it's true, are:

1. Have some restriction of free speech, on hate speech, defined by the majority and regularly reviewed.
2. Kill off a portion of each generation to get rid of the hotheads.

Or, you know, people could teach their kids the old "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me."

Once one understands that the symbol and the reality are two different things, it's just not that big a deal.

[mistermack]

When you're dealing with stupid people, you have to work with what you've got.
There are plenty of people in Northern Ireland stupid enough to get worked up and go and hurt innocent people, just because of a taunt by equally stupid people on the other side.

It's no good saying this is just someone burning trash. It's not to the morons who live there.
You have to accept reality, and make racial taunting illegal, even if americans don't get the taunts.

Everyone in NI knows exactly what burning these poppies means, and that's good enough.
They deserve what they get, and should have the book thrown at them.

[Exi5tentialist]

When you're dealing with stupid people, you have to work with what you've got.
There are plenty of people in Northern Ireland stupid enough to get worked up and go and hurt innocent people, just because of a taunt by equally stupid people on the other side.

It's no good saying this is just someone burning trash. It's not to the morons who live there.
You have to accept reality, and make racial taunting illegal, even if americans don't get the taunts.

Everyone in NI knows exactly what burning these poppies means, and that's good enough.
They deserve what they get, and should have the book thrown at them.

That's right. It's the poppies in people's minds that are being desecrated.

[John_fi_Skye]

These were teenagers.
Teenagers sometimes do stupid stuff.

Plenty of the people who were kneecapped during The Troubles weren't yet 20, as were plenty of those who did the kneecapping.