Idiots

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Tero
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Idiots

Post by Tero » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:59 am

why should every idiot be allowed to own a gun?
http://home.chicagopolice.org/north-sid ... -year-old/
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
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Re: Idiots

Post by Tero » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:52 pm

39 more gun fails
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/11/ ... nFAIL-CXLI
sample
GRUNDY CO., TN, 9/27/15: A deadly hunting accident in Grundy County is now being investigated by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. Grundy County Sheriff Clint Shrum says deputies were called out to Northcutts Cove Road for a hunting accident. "When deputies arrived they found one man giving another man CPR, asking for help, just didn't know exactly what was going on at the time," said Sheriff Clint Shrum. They found 44-year-old Chad Killian with a gunshot wound to his upper body. Killian was taken to the hospital and later died from his injuries. Sheriff Shrum says he was with another man at the time of the accident. 45-year-old Robin Smartt told deputies Killian was shot during a hunting accident, but the Sheriff says "not all of the facts add up," and now wants the TBI to investigate. "The initial story that we got was that somebody may have fallen out of a tree stand," Sheriff Shrum said, "Once we got into the investigation we found out that that was not the case." Smartt told another deputy they were hunting coyotes that were killing their chickens. So with conflicting stories, The TBI is taking over the death investigation, and the TWRA is looking into the fact that guns were being used during archery season. "That's why we contacted TWRA because there was shotguns involved," Sheriff Shrum said, "So we have them looking into that side of why these men were in the woods with shotguns." Channel 3 spoke to family members at the home on Northcutts Cove Road. The family hopes the TBI's investigation brings them some more answers, and brings the family peace.
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Re: Idiots

Post by Blind groper » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:35 pm

"A 2009 study corroborated these findings. Conducted by epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine and published in the American Journal of Public Health, it found that, on average, people with a gun are 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun."

Written by Dr. Michael Shermer in the American on-line magazine 'Skeptic'.

I predict that Seth will call this a lie, which is about as stupid a counter-argument as any you can encounter.

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Re: Idiots

Post by Blind groper » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:40 pm

"For a 2013 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Assn. Internal Medicine, researchers mined a database of 121,084 firearm deaths between 2007 and 2010. Then they compiled a “legislative strength score” for all 50 states based on the number and force of their gun control laws, and divided the states into quartiles. As it turns out, the states in the highest quartile of legislative strength had the lowest overall firearm fatality rate, and those in the lowest quartile had the highest fatality rate. This correlation held for both homicides and suicides.The authors were careful to note that correlation does not imply causation. But earlier studies have also found that the higher a state’s gun ownership rate, the higher its rate of gun-related homicides and suicides. Yes, people can kill one another and themselves with knives, ropes, lead pipes, wrenches and candlestick holders, but the data match the growing national intuition that guns are a major problem."

Also written by Dr. Michael Shermer, and showing that more gun control and fewer guns means fewer murders. Clear cut data. Guess what argument Seth will use, very stupidly, against it?

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Re: Idiots

Post by Seth » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:27 pm

Tero wrote:why should every idiot be allowed to own a gun?
http://home.chicagopolice.org/north-sid ... -year-old/
Because nobody knows he's an idiot till he does something idiotic and there's no way to predict who of the public is going to do something idiotic...with a gun, or a car, or their own two hands, as in the case of the daycare operator who likes to toss small children out of high-rise windows.

Idiocy is as idiocy does. He won't be doing it again though.

The solution of course is not to assume that everybody is an idiot and ban guns for everyone, which is clearly your next argument, it's to educate six year-olds in gun safety so they won't play with guns. You'll notice where this happened: Chicago. If there is one place on earth where children DO NOT get firearms safety training at an early age (like in public schools), its Chicago. Why? Because Chicago doesn't need to teach its children about guns and gun safety. Why not? Well, because Chicago is a gun-free zone, and therefore (according to the idiots in charge) there is no need to even mention guns to children much less teach them not to fuck around with them because children in Chicago will never, ever, under any circumstances come into contact with a gun because it's impossible for them to do so because, well, Chicago is a gun-free zone.

It's a self-fullfilling prophecy you see; declare Chicago a gun-free zone and guns will magically disappear and a magic force field will spontaneously come into being that will detect any attempt to bring a gun into Chicago and therefore Chicago will be a gun-free zone.

That's exactly the sort of completely fucked-up logic that lead to this tragic (and increasingly rare) case of firearms negligence cause by an idiot...well, many idiots actually, including the father but also including every anti-gun politician and activist in Chicago, all of whom have the blood of this child on their hands.

Bad shit like this happens far less often in places where people own and carry guns legally because they raise their kids properly and educate them in gun safety from the beginning.

I owned my first .22 rifle at 10 and I've never had a negligent discharge in my life, because my dad put a .38 S&W Police Special in my hands when I was 6 years old and helped me to shoot it at a cantaloupe, which promptly exploded into a thousand pieces. Then he told me "That could be your brother's or your mom's or my head if you play with a gun."

It's really simple to make kids understand this kind of thing if you take the time to do it.

But instead, kids in Chicago are inundated with gun-fiction where the good guys never get killed and are back for the next episode and where the nature of the medium doesn't get the message across, and they are inundated with fiction about the ILLEGAL use of guns as a matter of course, rather than the LEGAL and appropriate uses of guns, like hunting and target shooting, so it's no surprise that these ignorant kids are going to make a mistake if they get their hands on a loaded gun.

Teach your children well,
Their father's hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picked, the one you'll know by. Graham Nash

Again, as tragic as this is, it's not an argument for prohibiting people from owning guns, it's an argument for universal gun safety training in schools.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Idiots

Post by Seth » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:07 pm

Blind groper wrote:"A 2009 study corroborated these findings. Conducted by epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine and published in the American Journal of Public Health, it found that, on average, people with a gun are 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun."

Written by Dr. Michael Shermer in the American on-line magazine 'Skeptic'.

I predict that Seth will call this a lie, which is about as stupid a counter-argument as any you can encounter.
Yup, it's a lie. And here's the proof: In the article he refers to a bogus study that has been long ago debunked. It's called the "Kellerman study" and it's complete crap.

Oh, and Shermer is the EDITOR of Skeptic. I found an article by him in Scientific American, not Skeptic. Nice of you to not cite your sources.
Consider a 1998 study in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery that found that “[for] every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.” Pistol owners' fantasy of blowing away home-invading bad guys or street toughs holding up liquor stores is a myth debunked by the data showing that a gun is 22 times more likely to be used in a criminal assault, an accidental death or injury, a suicide attempt or a homicide than it is for self-defense. Source
The mendacity of this statement is monumental.

Here's an authoritative rebuttal to the falsehoods in the Kellerman report:

Objectives: Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.

Methods: We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.

Results: During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

Conclusions: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
Re: Butler JA "Questions Raised with Award." and Kellermann AL. response. in Letters. Emergency Medicine News. October 1997. Vol. XIX #10
Dear Editor,

Failure to address relevant, contradictory studies; 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 habitual citation of sources for support when the sources were actually non-supportive; [1(at citations 2 and 15-17), 2(at citation 12), 3(at citation 7)] citation of sources for non-existent statistics;[5 (at citations 11 &13)] citation of sources for a proposition not studied by the sources;[2(at citations 10,12,14,15)] failure to address possible confusion between cause and effect;[3] use of small, unrepresentative, non-probability convenience samples improperly generalized to large populations;[1] the use of simplistic models that fail to control for complicating factors;[3] unawareness of valid measures of gun availability or the limitations of those measures;[3] illogically studying how often gun owners conceal their ownership by studying a sample of only those who have revealed their gun ownership;[4] "adjusting" the study sample to buttress a foregone conclusion;[2] prejudicially truncated data;[6] non-sequitur logic;[6] and characterization of lawful self-defense as "murder."[7] Do these failings qualify as academic excellence?

In awarding Kellermann the Hal Jayne Academic Excellence Award for his highly politicized gun research, the Society for Academic Emergency Medicine only reveals its ignorance of the literature that has discredited Kellermann's incompetent methodology and biased interpretation, exposed his dishonest citations8, revealed Kellermann's failure to disclose affiliations that have compromised his objectivity, and noted the failure - even culpable unwillingness - of peer-review to identify or correct these errors.

Kellermann's research group at Emory University is institutionally a member of a handgun ban advocacy group, Christoffel's Handgun Epidemic Lowering Plan [see H.E.L.P.'s membership Web page] that "work toward changing society's attitude towards guns so that it becomes socially unacceptable for private citizens to have handguns9," a group so radical that, in a July 16, 1997 Internet exchange [on file with the editors] discrediting the methodology and conclusions of Hemenway & Richardson's 1997 article in the American Journal of Public Health, Christoffel exhorted her group to "dig up some dirt" on our think tank.

Beyond membership in an extremist, unscientific pressure group that suborns personal attacks, Kellermann has himself engaged in such attacks. When confronted with peer-reviewed criticism of his methodology and interpretation (characterized by Kellermann as "diatribes") in10 and out11 of the medical literature, Kellermann has indulged personal attacks on the critics with libelous "militia" name-calling.12,13

We believe that the Society should review these unimpeachable criticisms and, on confirming the accuracy of our organization's charges herein, Kellermann should be disciplined for professional misconduct and his award for academic excellence rescinded. To do less would be unconscionable.
Respectfully submitted,

Edgar A. Suter MD
National Chair
Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research Inc.
5201 Norris Canyon Road #220
San Ramon CA 94583 USA


Here's another:

The Kellerman, et al (1993) study in the NEJM attempts to use the case-control method (CCM) to show that gun ownership increases homicide in the home. The limitations of the CCM, and serious flaws in the study methodology, result in invalidation of the study's conclusions.


That throws your lies in the shit can, BG. Give it up. You're just plain wrong.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Idiots

Post by Tero » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:42 pm

Because nobody knows he's an idiot till he does something idiotic and there's no way to predict who of the public is going to do something idiotic...with a gun, or a car, or their own two hands, as in the case of the daycare operator who likes to toss small children out of high-rise windows.

Idiocy is as idiocy does. He won't be doing it again though.
Yes there is. Those with more traffic violations will do idiotic things with guns.

Right, he won't do it again. What about all the other idiots with guns?
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
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Re: Idiots

Post by JimC » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:54 pm

Are they useful idiots?
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Re: Idiots

Post by Blind groper » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:10 am

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1995/11 ... nal-00024/

Seth once more reverts to quoting gun nutters to justify guns. His Dr. Suter is a pro-gun nutter from way back. The reference above points to how he cherry picks his data to show the results he wants. Such dishonesty is pathetic.

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Re: Idiots

Post by Tero » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:19 pm

Idiot with no ability to control anger was issue a gun
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/22/us/child- ... e-killing/
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
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Re: Idiots

Post by Seth » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:56 pm

Tero wrote:
Because nobody knows he's an idiot till he does something idiotic and there's no way to predict who of the public is going to do something idiotic...with a gun, or a car, or their own two hands, as in the case of the daycare operator who likes to toss small children out of high-rise windows.

Idiocy is as idiocy does. He won't be doing it again though.
Yes there is. Those with more traffic violations will do idiotic things with guns.

Right, he won't do it again. What about all the other idiots with guns?
You tell me, specifically by name, DOB, place of residence and proof of idiocy who they are and I'll suggest they be interviewed by the police.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Idiots

Post by Seth » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:57 pm

Blind groper wrote:http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1995/11 ... nal-00024/

Seth once more reverts to quoting gun nutters to justify guns. His Dr. Suter is a pro-gun nutter from way back. The reference above points to how he cherry picks his data to show the results he wants. Such dishonesty is pathetic.
Circumstantial ad hominem. The author cites the errors. You fail to rebut. You lose.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Idiots

Post by Seth » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:00 pm

Tero wrote:Idiot with no ability to control anger was issue a gun
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/22/us/child- ... e-killing/
Sounds like a gang-banger who felt "disrespected" to me. So, they will put him away.

This is a good argument for putting gang-bangers away, not banning guns.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Idiots

Post by Tero » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:11 am

Fact: for every patriot with a gun, there are two gang bangers with gun. You are outnumbered.

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Re: Idiots

Post by Seth » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:47 am

Tero wrote:Fact: for every patriot with a gun, there are two gang bangers with gun. You are outnumbered.
That "fact" was pulled straight out of your rectum and you didn't even rinse it off. But, if true, all the more need for us non-gang-bangers to be better armed.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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