Guns bad...case closed

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Tero
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Guns bad...case closed

Post by Tero » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:02 pm

More guns, more shooting
Contrary to the lies disseminated by the gun lobby, guns in our homes and on our streets do not make our families, or our communities, safer. The reality is that more guns statistically equate to both higher crime rates and more gun deaths, including higher rates of homicide, higher rates of suicide and the obvious, higher rates of “accidental shootings.” The moment a gun is brought into a home, the risk of violent death for every person living in that home increases.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/13 ... aby-video/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... -movement/

http://www.livescience.com/39813-gun-ow ... eaths.html

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... ns-murder/

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full

Gun lobby guns statistics are all spin.

Taking ONE individual into a study, you could predict that the individual would not cause extra deaths, and might save their own life. But we can't tell. Any sample of 100 would have a small number of "good" gun owners. Statistics say that those 100 gun owners are no benefit to the rest, to me, to average man or woman in street.
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Tero » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:32 pm

I only need to quote one Republican, they all say the same.NRA has all of them in its pocket. If there is still room, with all them concealed weapons in the pocket.
Jeb on Oregon Massacre: ‘Stuff Happens’
Bush says “more government” is not the answer to gun violence and President Obama immediately hits back.
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And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Seth » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:39 am

Tero wrote:More guns, more shooting
Contrary to the lies disseminated by the gun lobby, guns in our homes and on our streets do not make our families, or our communities, safer. The reality is that more guns statistically equate to both higher crime rates and more gun deaths, including higher rates of homicide, higher rates of suicide and the obvious, higher rates of “accidental shootings.” The moment a gun is brought into a home, the risk of violent death for every person living in that home increases.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/13 ... aby-video/
Which is of course a lie and a fallacious appeal to the consequences of a belief.
Except it doesn't.
Except it's a mendacious lie.
Except it's Progressive propaganda and a bald-faced lie.
Except it's not true.
Gun lobby guns statistics are all spin.
Nope. Facts.
Taking ONE individual into a study, you could predict that the individual would not cause extra deaths, and might save their own life. But we can't tell. Any sample of 100 would have a small number of "good" gun owners. Statistics say that those 100 gun owners are no benefit to the rest, to me, to average man or woman in street.
Even if what you say were true, which it's not, it's irrelevant whether the lawful possession and use of a gun by a citizen is of benefit to you or anyone else so long as it is of benefit to the individual who carries it and does not harm you directly. That's what "rights" are all about, you see. My right to own and drive a car doesn't depend for its existence or enforcement upon your opinion about whether my doing so constitutes some vacuous and paranoid threat to you. You just have to put up with the exercise of liberties of others even if you don't like it and even if you think that their exercise of their liberties somehow (inexplicably) poses a risk to you personally.

That's a feature of every society. You don't get a one-man dissenter's veto over the rights of others just because you're afraid of them or what might happen. You do get to pursue justice if any particular individual violates the law and harms you, but you don't get to regulate the activities of others based on your personal opinion of the relative safety of their activities.

You just have to suck it up, let them enjoy their rights, and control your irrational fears...or lock yourself in your house. Either is acceptable.

Advocating for the violating of other people's right to personal safety based on your personal opinions is not acceptable however.
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Seth » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:40 am

Tero wrote:I only need to quote one Republican, they all say the same.NRA has all of them in its pocket. If there is still room, with all them concealed weapons in the pocket.
Jeb on Oregon Massacre: ‘Stuff Happens’
Bush says “more government” is not the answer to gun violence and President Obama immediately hits back.
And Obama is a Marxist/Progressive fuckwit who is trying to destroy the United States, so who gives a rat's ass what he says? Not me.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by laklak » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:38 am

Makes me safer.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:41 am

In Florida, a gun may not be enough. Have you considered a moat with alligators?

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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by laklak » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:50 am

I have amphibious pit bulls in the moat. I keep the gators in the garage, and launch them at people with giant rubber bands.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Collector1337 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:29 am

Image
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by cronus » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:03 am

Guns are not the problem. It is the allocation of the balance of power. If every family member was allowed a hand grenade as a equalising bargaining tool then gun violence in the home would go away.
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:20 am

Collector1337 wrote:Image
What about the phrase "WELL REGULATED"? :tea:
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Tero » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:25 pm

And Militia. I never keep any militias in my home. Wasn't there something about not having to feed (quarter) soldiers?
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Svartalf » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:45 pm

Tero wrote:And Militia. I never keep any militias in my home. Wasn't there something about not having to feed (quarter) soldiers?
no need to quarter soldiers when common citizens own their own weapons and can be drafted into a militia at need... by the standard meaning of "militia", it might even mean that every able and franchised citizen would undergo periodic military training and service, like in Switzerland, or the old style free cities of Netherlands.
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Seth » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:32 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Collector1337 wrote:Image
What about the phrase "WELL REGULATED"? :tea:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The first half of the Amendment is an explanation of one of the primary reasons why the individual RKBA shall not be infringed at the federal level, by Congress.

The "Militia" in the US has two components: the Organized Militia, which consists of state military forces (state guard, national guard, state militia) and the Unorganized Militia (reserve militia), which is comprised of (at the moment) all able-bodied males between 17 and 45 who are not members of the National Guard or Naval Militia.

"Well-regulated" means, in the context of linguistic usage at the time the Amendment was drafted means, in today's usage, "properly equipped and trained."

In order for a reserve militia to be properly equipped, it was (and is still) necessary for there to be a sufficient pool of arms of military type and quality available to the members of the unorganized militia so that when called to duty they can report fully-armed and prepared to go into battle immediately. It is not possible for either a state or the federal government to stockpile sufficient arms to equip every able-bodied male between 17 and 45 in a short enough time for them to be fielded effectively, nor is there time to train them all in marksmanship when an emergency requiring their call to duty occurs.

The concept the Framers used when drafting the 2nd Amendment presumes a priori that all law-abiding citizens have an inherent, natural and unalienable right to keep and bear arms. The Amendment does not provide them with this right, the right predates and is superior to any authority granted to government to regulate anything.

Therefore, as an a priori fact, the right to keep and bear arms exists prior to and independent of all government authority and the 2nd Amendment cannot be read to be permissive when it is in fact a restriction on the power and authority of government to regulate the right to keep and bear arms.

One, but just one of the reasons that the Founders felt it was important to so constrain government authority to regulate the RKBA has to do with the ability of a state or the Congress to effectively raise an army in time of military need. Since the federal government only has authority over federal matters, the Founders wrote the 2nd Amendment to prevent Congress from disarming the general public. They knew that the first act of a tyrant is to disarm the populace because they had just fought a bitter war for precisely that reason. King George sent troops to Lexington and Concord to seize arms from the Colonists, which is where and why the Revolutionary War began. The Founders resolved that the new nation they were founding would never, ever permit its government to debar the possession and lawful use of arms by the citizenry.

So, the first half of the Amendment, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," simply states the primary reason that congressional authority must be restricted; each State, in order to remain free and provide for it's own security against usurpation by the federal government or some tyrant who takes control of the federal government, as well as the State's security against invasion or insurrection, must not be subject to Congressional infringement on it's citizen's ability to form an effective pre-armed military force on demand.

In order to protect both the entire nation's reserve military capacity and the military capacity of each state, the pre-existing right of each citizen to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed" by the Congress. With the passage of the 14th Amendment, the protections of the 2nd Amendment also extended to the authority of the several States to infringe on those rights, a fact that was ignored for a very, very long time, right up until the Supreme Court finally decided to squarely address the blatant violation of the rights of citizens in many states and cities such as New York, Chicago and Washington D.C. in the Heller case, in which it ruled that the RKBA is NOT limited to those who are members of the Organized Militia, or the Unorganized Militia either, but rather the RKBA is inherent, natural and unalienable and applies to EVERY citizen and that neither the federal government nor a state government, nor the government of the District of Columbia may "infringe" on that right. The Court went on to state that militia capacity is NOT the only thing controlled by the 2nd Amendment, it acknowledged a long-understood fact, going back to pre-colonial times, that the right of citizens to keep and bear arms includes the right to keep and bear them for personal security and defense.

So, the issue has been settled with finality by the SCOTUS. The right to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed" by either the Congress or the legislature of any State. Period.
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:38 pm

You talk as if the 2nd amendment was holy writ, Seth. It isn't (and neither is the constitution as a whole for that matter). It's just an afterthought that made sense at the time to those in power.

Amendments get repealed. The 18th was. And the 2nd is long overdue. :tea:
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Re: Guns bad...case closed

Post by Seth » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:06 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:You talk as if the 2nd amendment was holy writ, Seth. It isn't (and neither is the constitution as a whole for that matter). It's just an afterthought that made sense at the time to those in power.

Amendments get repealed. The 18th was. And the 2nd is long overdue. :tea:
Good luck with that. And should you succeed, good luck in trying to collect all our arms, because you're going to need it...nay, you're going to need divine intervention and a miracle to survive even attempting to do so. So will any "government" that attempts it. You see, the whole reason the 2nd Amendment exists is so that the citizenry can be armed against those who would presume to infringe on our fundamental rights...all of them and each of them. Try to do so and we'll exercise the primary purpose of an armed citizenry: we will put you down like we'd put down any tyrant.

You see, the right to keep and bear arms cannot be repealed, it's not an amendment, it's an inherent, natural and unalienable right that accrues to every human being on the face of the earth, not just Americans. You can repeal the 2nd Amendment, but to paraphrase Andrew Jackson, "Now that you've repealed the Amendment, try and enforce it."

And there's way more of us than there are of you, and we've got the guns and you don't. You, and every other wannabe tyrant had best keep that firmly in mind.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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