Only in America

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Re: Only in America

Post by tattuchu » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:52 am

Svartalf wrote:It's not the first time an instructor got shot because a kid could not handle an automatic's recoil... I wonder if it wasn't an Uzi too in the incident I remember
There was another uzi story in the news not long ago. Young kid, same deal. Though if I recall, the boy shot himself in the head.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Svartalf » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:58 am

Years ago IIRC
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Re: Only in America

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:58 am

There's an actual video of it. Gross. Not sure if the uncensored version is available or not..
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Re: Only in America

Post by mistermack » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:20 am

It wasn't the gun's fault.

I'm sure she would have stabbed him to death, if the gun hadn't been there.

And anyway, she shouldn't have been firing a gun until she had had proper training, from an instructor.
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Re: Only in America

Post by laklak » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:33 pm

Stupid is as stupid does.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Only in America

Post by klr » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:35 pm

Moved this thread to its spiritual home :stanley:
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Re: Only in America

Post by JimC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:58 pm

klr wrote:Moved this thread to its spiritual home :stanley:
The Gun Club, AKO as "The Church of the Gun Incarnate"

:hehe:
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Re: Only in America

Post by klr » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:12 pm

JimC wrote:
klr wrote:Moved this thread to its spiritual home :stanley:
The Gun Club, AKO as "The Church of the Gun Incarnate"

:hehe:
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Re: Only in America

Post by Seabass » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:12 am

They should have given her an Vector. Less muzzle climb.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Gallstones » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:40 am







But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010

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Re: Only in America

Post by Seth » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:34 am

Svartalf wrote:It's not the first time an instructor got shot because a kid could not handle an automatic's recoil... I wonder if it wasn't an Uzi too in the incident I remember
Mini-uzi in fact. The simple solution is a leash on the front sling swivel staked to the ground or shooting bench that prevents the muzzle from climbing above horizontal.

Or don't let young children shoot Uzis.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Seth » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:45 am

rEvolutionist wrote:Yep. Who lets (let alone wants) a child (to) handle a fucking Uzi?!? More gun insanity in the US. I read recently that one state (perhaps Kansas?) has enacted a law of some sort to clarify people who are "defending" themselves from cops by shooting them. That sentence didn't make much sense... Basically, it's somewhat legal to shoot and kill a cop who is performing a "no knock" warrant/raid on a house. So you've got cops killing innocent citizens, citizens killing cops and not getting prosecuted... Fucken crazy place over there. Seriously, what a fucking nut house! :o
Do you have anything to say about the 150+ people per year that are killed by SWAT teams raiding the WRONG HOUSE who are perfectly innocent of any crime, and in which the shooters virtually never face negligent manslaughter charges, much less murder charges?

The militarization of the police is a horrible adjunct to the "war on drugs" that needs to be reversed.

If the police have an arrest warrant for an individual for selling drugs out of a house, then arrest that individual outside of the house somewhere. The lives and safety of the occupants of even a known drug house who are not guilty of any crime, like children and nursing mothers...and dogs, are far more important than whatever the SWAT team accomplishes with a surprise raid. Good police work can provide all the necessary evidence without requiring a "dynamic entry" that constitutes unlawful felony menacing by the police against unarmed persons.

If any citizen did what the police do every day, they would be in jail for brandishing firearms, felony menacing and all sorts of other crimes associated with waving guns about and frightening people, which SWAT teams do DELIBERATELY, and entirely without legal authority. Nowhere in the statutes does it say that police officers get to threaten people with guns whenever they want. They have only the same authority as anyone else to point a gun at someone, and that means they must "reasonably believe" that their lives are in danger, and that cannot occur unless and until the suspects resist or display some sort of weapon or intent to harm, which sleeping children in bed don't do very often.

Take Elian Gonzales, the Cuban kid kidnapped by Janet Reno's terrorist squad at machine-gun point so he could be sent back to that Communist hell his parents died getting him out of. In my day, well-dressed officers in plain clothes would have knocked politely on the door, presented the appropriate paperwork and convinced the occupants to cooperate with the legal process. And any SWAT teams would have remained carefully hidden from sight in an unmarked truck for deployment only if things got ugly.
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Re: Only in America

Post by JimC » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:57 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Yep. Who lets (let alone wants) a child (to) handle a fucking Uzi?!? More gun insanity in the US. I read recently that one state (perhaps Kansas?) has enacted a law of some sort to clarify people who are "defending" themselves from cops by shooting them. That sentence didn't make much sense... Basically, it's somewhat legal to shoot and kill a cop who is performing a "no knock" warrant/raid on a house. So you've got cops killing innocent citizens, citizens killing cops and not getting prosecuted... Fucken crazy place over there. Seriously, what a fucking nut house! :o
Do you have anything to say about the 150+ people per year that are killed by SWAT teams raiding the WRONG HOUSE who are perfectly innocent of any crime, and in which the shooters virtually never face negligent manslaughter charges, much less murder charges?

The militarization of the police is a horrible adjunct to the "war on drugs" that needs to be reversed.

If the police have an arrest warrant for an individual for selling drugs out of a house, then arrest that individual outside of the house somewhere. The lives and safety of the occupants of even a known drug house who are not guilty of any crime, like children and nursing mothers...and dogs, are far more important than whatever the SWAT team accomplishes with a surprise raid. Good police work can provide all the necessary evidence without requiring a "dynamic entry" that constitutes unlawful felony menacing by the police against unarmed persons.

If any citizen did what the police do every day, they would be in jail for brandishing firearms, felony menacing and all sorts of other crimes associated with waving guns about and frightening people, which SWAT teams do DELIBERATELY, and entirely without legal authority. Nowhere in the statutes does it say that police officers get to threaten people with guns whenever they want. They have only the same authority as anyone else to point a gun at someone, and that means they must "reasonably believe" that their lives are in danger, and that cannot occur unless and until the suspects resist or display some sort of weapon or intent to harm, which sleeping children in bed don't do very often.

Take Elian Gonzales, the Cuban kid kidnapped by Janet Reno's terrorist squad at machine-gun point so he could be sent back to that Communist hell his parents died getting him out of. In my day, well-dressed officers in plain clothes would have knocked politely on the door, presented the appropriate paperwork and convinced the occupants to cooperate with the legal process. And any SWAT teams would have remained carefully hidden from sight in an unmarked truck for deployment only if things got ugly.
I would agree that the police are going down a very scary path.

However, if an entire nation is going down the path of more and more people wanting guns, the more the better, why should the police be left behind?
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Re: Only in America

Post by Seth » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:23 pm

JimC wrote:
I would agree that the police are going down a very scary path.

However, if an entire nation is going down the path of more and more people wanting guns, the more the better, why should the police be left behind?
Because they are public servants and they get whatever tools we, the people, decide they need. If they don't like it, they can find other employment.

If enough law-abiding people are armed, we won't need police SWAT teams because the people will exercise THEIR right to enforce the law and the police will consist mostly of unarmed crime scene technicians and report writers who prepare evidence for trial. Possibly some investigators as well.

Thing is, if my neighborhood becomes infested with drug dealers and meth houses I don't need the police to take direct action to take criminals into custody for crimes occurring in my presence because my right to do so actually exceeds that of the police because THEIR authority to do so flows from the right of the people to police themselves which they DELEGATE to (but do not surrender or abdicate to) paid professional representatives.

I have every right to call up my neighbors, kit up with them and go to the crack house and arrest everybody, turn them over to the police, and secure the crimescene for processing. And we don't even need a warrant to do so if we have witnessed a crime.

All power, political or police, vested in government flows downwards from the People to the government, not vice-versa, and those powers and authorities are limited and revokable at the will of the People.

Like it or not, that happens to be the law in the US, generally speaking, and it's been done here more than once. Here's one example.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Only in America

Post by Tero » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:50 pm

But if you dusarm the police, mainly idiots (at least 50% of our population) have guns. You have to disarm both.

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