The case against guns

[MrJonno]

My biggest complaint about CCTV cameras is the quality of them, never seem to get a clear picture.

The residence committee at my flat all voted to pay for them out of own money, I would rather have a CCTV camera outside my flat than a gun inside it

[Jason]

Hyperbole - yes, for now.

It may not bother you that citizens are effectively disarmed, but you may not be bearing in mind that a disarmed populace, especially one barred from arms, has historically been strongly correlated with oppressive and totalitarian regimes. As I understand it, it helps when putting down civil unrest and quashing civil uprisings against the oppressive, exploitative, and/or totalitarian regime. Surveillance and control of speech are more subtle and more concerning, but, as this is the gun forum, disarmament will probably become the focus.. if this vein of discussion goes anywhere at all.

[MrJonno]

An armed populace is what is associated with oppressive regimes as the first thing any regime does if give everyone lots and lots of guns by conscripting them into the army.

Regardless of government the biggest threat to my freedom and safety is the public.

[Jason]

An armed populace is what is associated with oppressive regimes as the first thing any regime does if give everyone lots and lots of guns by conscripting them into the army.

Regardless of government the biggest threat to my freedom and safety is the public.

Conscription is not the same as an armed proletariat.

How could the public be a threat to your freedoms except that it, nominally, chooses the government which makes public policy and enforces the same?

[MrJonno]

Conscription is not the same as an armed proletariat.

The masses with lots of guns, seems the same to me

How could the public be a threat to your freedoms except that it, nominally, chooses the government which makes public policy and enforces the same?

The government might kill me for my religion or lack of it, colour,politics or hair colour, the general public will do so for all those reasons combined with they are bored, had a bad day at office or a 1000 other reasons that are just natural to being human. I would almost certainly have to quit my job as there is no way anyone would run a bus service with teenagers carrying guns on board. Basic quality of life and in fact life expectancy in general would fall so fast the public would beg for martial law to be brought in

[Blind groper]

a disarmed populace, especially one barred from arms, has historically been strongly correlated with oppressive and totalitarian regimes.

That sounds to me as an unsupported and idiotic Seth opinion.

Fakuname,
If you want to make statements like this, then back them up with an internet reference to a reputable source. Otherwise we will have it confirmed that it is a pure bullshit opinion.

[Jason]

No, because conscripts are under the command and control of the conscriptor.

You're apparently working from some unstated premise in making your case for your fear of the general public, because what you wrote make no sense otherwise.

[Jason]

a disarmed populace, especially one barred from arms, has historically been strongly correlated with oppressive and totalitarian regimes.

That sounds to me as an unsupported and idiotic Seth opinion.

Fakuname,
If you want to make statements like this, then back them up with an internet reference to a reputable source. Otherwise we will have it confirmed that it is a pure bullshit opinion.

Read a book. I'm not here to do your homework for you.

Groper,
If you want to make bland dismissals of statements that are common knowledge amongst educated persons, then back them up with something of substance. Otherwise we, yes we, will have it confirmed that you're just another opinionated ignoramus.

[MrJonno]

No, because conscripts are under the command and control of the conscriptor.

You're apparently working from some unstated premise in making your case for your fear of the general public, because what you wrote make no sense otherwise.

Public = violent animals, impulsive, uneducated, and general chaotic
Governments = ordered, controlled, professional. Doesn't , mean they won't do bad things but it least will be due a reason you may have a chance of at least predicting

While a random sample of politicians might include a couple of loons, its nothing compared to a random sample of people on the bus.

Government's job is to protect the public from itself and the public not having firearms makes it a lot easier

[Jason]

Government's job is to protect the public from itself and the public not having firearms makes it a lot easier

It certainly did for the National Socialist Party of Germany after 1938.

[MrJonno]

Government's job is to protect the public from itself and the public not having firearms makes it a lot easier

It certainly did for the National Socialist Party of Germany after 1938.

The national socialist party that brought itself to power via armed milita?. If there had been better gun control in post WW1 Germany Hitler would never have got to power

[Jason]

Actually, there was very strict gun control in post WW1 Germany. In 1938 they tightened it even further. Gun control was more strict than in many nations today. Do some reading on the Waffengesetz.

[MrJonno]

Actually, there was very strict gun control in post WW1 Germany. In 1938 they tightened it even further. Gun control was more strict than in many nations today. Do some reading on the Waffengesetz.

There was zero enforced gun control after WW1, massive amounts of ex-army equipment as the German military basically disintegrated. Quite similar to the state of Libya after Gaddafi which is why the number one priority of their government is to get weapons out of milita. It's the only way to form a stable society. The SS/SA were born out of what was the German equivalent of redneck militia groups.

[Jason]

Actually, there was very strict gun control in post WW1 Germany. In 1938 they tightened it even further. Gun control was more strict than in many nations today. Do some reading on the Waffengesetz.

There was zero enforced gun control after WW1, massive amounts of ex-army equipment as the German military basically disintegrated. Quite similar to the state of Libya after Gaddafi which is why the number one priority of their government is to get weapons out of milita. It's the only way to form a stable society. The SS/SA were born out of what was the German equivalent of redneck militia groups.

Wrong. Read a book.

[laklak]

There is definitely nastiness in the USA, over and above the silliness with guns. I do not know how any rational Americans can justify Guantanamo Bay, waterboarding, surveillance of personal phone calls, the death penalty (even when it has been proven that many of those executed were, in fact, innocent), and the invasion of overseas nations without justification.

Strangely enough, the much-maligned Libertarian Party (of which I happen to be a member) is adamantly opposed to all those issues with the exception of capital punishment. They see that as a state issue, not federal, which it in fact is. They are also very strong supporters of the 2nd Amendment, legalization of drugs, relaxation of immigration rules, immediate withdrawal of the U.S. military from all overseas bases, the right to abortion, gay marriage and a complete overhaul of national tax regulations.

Yet they're routinely castigated as selfish, irrational lunatics. Go figure.